SUNO is killer!

[ghettosynth]

I think that what I see here is that there is so much ego invested in a manual mechanism that it invents a moral defensive posture.

I don't invest a lot of my ego in making music, if any. It's possibly the least ego involved work I do ever. Music is a hobby to me.

The process is the point in the same way that the process is the point in hiking or having a drink with mates. I would certainly not outsource the process of drinking just to get to the hangover faster.

You absolutely do outsource the process. You use plugins, you use a DAW. I assume that you didn't write your own. I understand that your process is your process. My processes are my processes. I build my own instruments. So do many people here. That's part of the process for me and something that I don't outsource when I want to exercise that process. Again, this is your ego. You are in denial, you want to judge others because you think that your process is morally superior. For anything that you do, someone else can judge you in the same way for what you don't do. Elevate your thinking and see that process have some degree of reward to some person, even if it doesn't for you.

I can even understand that part of the "Suno motive", but it's still missing out on the most fun part of the whole endeavor, which is the part I can't understand.

For you, it's missing out on the part that you think is most fun. If you don't make your own instruments, with a soldering iron, then you're missing out on the most fun part from my perspective. If you don't design them yourself, from raw components, then you're missing out on more fun. I'm sure someone can tell me that if I don't build my own vacuum tubes, then I'm missing out on some fun.

Here, this is what some people think is fun.



I bet he buys the raw materials and tools to build his vacuum tubes, maybe he's missing out on some fun?

People like to have an idea and to turn that idea into music. I think that SUNO has fantastic applications, but, I don't think that people trying to become SUNO stars is it. I think that where it really shines is that people can make music that wouldn't have been made otherwise and they can make it for the moment.

I think that this does threaten people here. It threatens your Bandcamp output. Not because it's better, per se, but because it frees people who have ideas from needing others to express them. So, by threaten, I mean that it does shrink the market for your music and everyone else on bandcamp and the like.

[gearwatcher]

Yawn. More of the goat herding nonsense.

It does not matter what part of the process you find fun. The point is that with "prompt to track" there is absolutely no process left at all. No room for creative expression in any way. It's just a brief -> [black box] -> product.

Whatever part of what the "black box" supplanted you presonally found enteraining and engaging, it's completely gone in the "prompt to track" paradigm, irrespective of whatever it was.

[ghettosynth]

Yawn. More of the goat herding nonsense.

It does not matter what part of the process you find fun. The point is that with "prompt to track" there is absolutely no process left at all. No room for creative expression in any way. It's just a brief -> [black box] -> product.

Whatever part of what the "black box" supplanted you presonally found enteraining and engaging, it's completely gone in the "prompt to track" paradigm, irrespective of whatever it was.

No, again, and this was my point. You seem to be confusing your opinion and desire to defend your ego with fact. Even resorting to pejoratives to defend your position. Shout at the clouds all you want, it will make no difference in the end result.

All that you're saying is that you don't know how to use the tool creatively. I see the posts have moved, before you said that you didn't understand, then it was "I find this part enjoyable", now it doesn't matter what other people find enjoyable, you just want to caricature a process that you don't understand in a context that you don't understand.

[gearwatcher]

Because it's so difficult to understand the process of "Write me a hit song in this and that style featuring these and these instruments, make no mistakes"?

[morelia]

How about this? At one extreme you have a randomize button that Tommy Emmanuel can press and it makes completely random music. At the other extreme you have a me, who has practiced or 40+ years to attempt to reach a skill that allows the creation of music just like my mind desires. Everything else is in between somewhere, the grey area. With so many use cases and applications is it even possible to reach consensus n AI/Suno? I have no need need, admiration or appreciation for AI generated music. But there comes a point where I accept assistance. I can't imagine a single person would agree on the exact point of acceptance that I have. So what is there to argue about. Discuss? Yes. But there seems to be more hostility than discussion going on here. What drives hostility? Justifying your use case, ego, hard work, ignorance, understanding, lack thereof, fear, yadda yadda.

[ghettosynth]

How about this? At one extreme you have a randomize button that Tommy Emmanuel can press and it makes completely random music. At the other extreme you have a me, who has practiced or 40+ years to attempt to reach a skill that allows the creation of music just like my mind desires. Everything else is in between somewhere, the grey area. With so many use cases and applications is it even possible to reach consensus n AI/Suno? I have no need need, admiration or appreciation for AI generated music. But there comes a point where I accept assistance. I can't imagine a single person would agree on the exact point of acceptance that I have. So what is there to argue about. Discuss? Yes. But there seems to be more hostility than discussion going on here. What drives hostility? Justifying your use case, ego, hard work, ignorance, understanding, lack thereof, fear, yadda yadda.

[BONES]

LOL. the best you could do is project your lack of taste as some kind of an argument and the tired old "goat hearding" routine?

It's nothing to do with taste, your music isn't interesting, as shown by the number of people who thought it was worth paying for. You're crapping on about creativity but your music shows very little of it. Frankly, it was hard to listen to without my mind wandering off, there's nothing in there to hold my attention.

I have actually done all that: played in a band live, recorded live musicians and produced them.

And that's still the best you can do, really?

It does not matter what work is, it's a completely different process to writing a brief to a machine to get a complete track.

And yet "prompt engineer" is a job that can pay incredibly well, if you can get a foot in the door.

... the process is the point in hiking

Is it? That's not why I do it. I do it to get away from people and to see parts of the world I might not otherwise see, in a more intimate way than you might on a bike or in a car. The actual hiking part is often just a punish, something to be endured, which is why I'll often drive as far as I can before walking the rest of the way.

The only difference is that finishing a track leaves an artifact which I can also later enjoy.

I sounds like pure ego to me if you really do listen to your own music for pleasure. By the time I'm finished with an album I usually don't care if I never hear it again. I have so much great music to listen to there's not really any time to listen to our own stuff. I've already bought more than 30 albums this year and finding time to listen to them is hard enough.

I make music I wish existed in the world

You can't be serious? Your stuff sounds like every lift I've walked into in the last 10 years or the worthless, inoffensive, tedious crap they play in the changerooms at work. It doesn't sound in any way, shape or form original or different to me.

The point is that with "prompt to track" there is absolutely no process left at all.

Really? Then tell us, where does the prompt come from? How long do you think it takes to refine the prompt and iterate the output until you get what you're after? Because it took us more than 3 months and around 400 generated outputs to get 12 usable songs for an album, and then hundreds of more hours whipping them into shape. It has required considerably more work than we have ever put into an album before.

No room for creative expression in any way. It's just a brief -> [black box] -> product.

You're just showing your complete ignorance of the process. My experience is that it offers at least as many opportunities for your own creative input than doing it any other way. Sure if you don't care what comes out, then it can be really easy but if you do care, if you're trying to make something that's a true reflection of the goals you've set, you'll quickly find that it's not a shortcut, it's not a time-saver, it's hard f**king work. The payoff is that if you know what you're doing, you'll end up with something better.

[gearwatcher]

It's nothing to do with taste, your music isn't interesting, as shown by the number of people who thought it was worth paying for.

I'm glad I had an opportunity to have such profound discussion with a fat joke who thinks that, by taking this train of thought to its logical conclusion, Taylor Swift is the obvious pinnacle of musical creativity above all else.

Truly an inspiring foray into bean counting as important aspect of creativity.

And yet "prompt engineer" is a job that can pay incredibly well, if you can get a foot in the door.

LOL.

BWAHAHA even.

Tell me you haven't seen engineering industry of any kind even on a postcard, without telling me.

By the time I'm finished with an album I usually don't care if I never hear it again.

I'd feel the same way about your albums too tbh.