Mark Mothersbaugh on Classic Hardware vs Software Emulations

[machinesworking]

I can't do a useful Rock vocal. I basically go from EBM style shouting to Light Opera, with not much in between.

Now I have this image of you doing Total Eclipse by Klaus Nomi.

[machinesworking]

Yeah I don't hardly listen to any Jazz or Classical mostly because too much of those genres are about showing off talent.

Agree for modern Jazz. But classical? I don't listen to a ton but I do really enjoy full orchestral works. Are you thinking more about individual performances here (piano concertos, etc)?

I pretty much love everything Chopin did, I just get burned out on the whole "let's take this key and add every orchestral swirl to it we can" routine that a lot of classical does. Not every song needs 30+ parts. I like repeating motifs and patterns, it does not have to be dead simple but it shouldn't be flourishes and variations for 8 minutes. generally prefer classical to jazz and it's a lie I don't listen to some of both, but I prefer commoner music.

[jamcat]

I wish I did not but I do very badly and really should get some training because it's precisely with industrial or electroindustrial where my voice sounds the dumbest

Then you're nailing the style

Ok that was a solid burn

Best part is it was two for the price of one!

[stoopicus]

I wish I did not but I do very badly and really should get some training because it's precisely with industrial or electroindustrial where my voice sounds the dumbest

Then you're nailing the style

Ok that was a solid burn

Best part is it was two for the price of one!

Yeah I was kind of impressed really

[D-Fusion]

Software do sound good these days but they still do sound a bit stiff compared to the original.

I don't mean only tuning wise but also in how the envelopes behave.
Some do also make the filter more aggressive than the original which makes them sound harder which adds a digital harsness to the sound while other emulations make the filter and tone to weak.

So it is more important to buy a emulation if you like what you hear since the most identical thing on most of them is the gui layout.

[stoopicus]

So it is more important to buy a emulation if you like what you hear

this is the only real reason to buy any synthesizer, hardware or software; it has nothing to do with the fact that it is an emulation

[BONES]

I can't do a useful Rock vocal. I basically go from EBM style shouting to Light Opera, with not much in between.

Now I have this image of you doing Total Eclipse by Klaus Nomi.

Not quite in my register.

Software do sound good these days but they still do sound a bit stiff compared to the original.

Bullshit, that's all in your mind. I guarantee you that you wouldn't be able to tell one from the other in any blind test.

[D-Fusion]

I can't do a useful Rock vocal. I basically go from EBM style shouting to Light Opera, with not much in between.

Now I have this image of you doing Total Eclipse by Klaus Nomi.

Not quite in my register.

Software do sound good these days but they still do sound a bit stiff compared to the original.

Bullshit, that's all in your mind. I guarantee you that you wouldn't be able to tell one from the other in any blind test.

I have done some personal comparisons myself and know my way around these simple synths.

Some Emulations are as close as 2 of the same Analog synths can be but many of them are not the same.

That is why i said some emulations in my full post that you picked a quote from.

I am not saying they are bad since many of them do sound good as their own thing with a familiar layout.

Many are different from the originals and yes you can hear the difference very clearly on some of them.

You are very naive if you believe that 100% of the emulations nail the sound just because they have the same layout as the originals.

[machinesworking]

Software do sound good these days but they still do sound a bit stiff compared to the original.

Bullshit, that's all in your mind. I guarantee you that you wouldn't be able to tell one from the other in any blind test.

I think as I've stated here it really depends. If I can somehow get the time together I'll toss up a comparison between the Arturia Matrix V and the Xpander. I don't think the V is that bad of an emulation but opening up the filter so it's just the oscillator sound the difference between the two is pretty drastic. It's not coming from the preamp in the Xpander, it's super low output compared to the Memorymoog, it's just the raw sound of the osc is much bigger than the V. Even quickly comparing the Memorymoog to the V version the oscs are thinner, and the filter is less brutal.

Cherry Atomika is an exception, the rule seems to be virtual analog territory, everything sounds to me like Nords. Atomika proves it can be done, but as witnessed in this thread most people are happy with a mediocre facsimile that offers up some fun routing from the original synth they craved in their youth. I get it, an emulation that isn't that close can be more than good enough in context, I've used the Matrix V on vacation for songs and never felt the need to replace it with the real thing, because the architecture between the two is not similar enough to where it would be a matter of copying settings, and the song is built around the V bass not the Xpander.

Here's the clincher, in no way is the difference worth the price difference. You can pick up the Matrix V for $150, much cheaper on sale, the Xpander is sitting at $5900 to 7500 on Reverb. That's another reason though it would be great if they nailed it. They came close enough with Atomika to where I'm not interested in buying a Soviet era synth. I think they have less excuses these days than they did 10 years ago even, but likely people don't want to pay the price exact emulations would cost.

[BONES]

Most people don't give a flying f**k either way, they are more interested in Serum and Zebra than in emulations. My only interest in emulations is in having easy to use synths that sound good. I couldn't give a toss how much it does or doesn't sound like some crappy old piece of hardware I left behind 30 or 40 years ago or only ever heard on records. Why would I? In fact, the more slavishly faithful to the original it is, the less interested I am likely to be in it. Arturia's SEMulation, for example, might be the absolute closest to the original (it's probably not but work with me here) but it doesn't have unison so it sounds like shit next to Cherry Audio's free version. And I have no idea how close to a real one bx_oberhausen is, I just know that with 32 voices of unison, nothing else can come close to its hugeness (except maybe Union).

Another good example is LegendHZ - how much better is that than any MiniMoog could ever have hoped to be? Those are the kinds of emulations that make sense to me, ladder filter not withstanding.

I have done some personal comparisons myself and know my way around these simple synths.

That's not the same thing, you go into it with all your bias intact. The very nature of the comparison will always disadvantage the emulation. In a blind test you have to make an assessment without knowing which you are assessing. i.e. Instead of starting with a known patch and trying to make another one exactly the same, you just get to hear two similar patches and you have to decide which one sounds better, which one you like more. It's a completely different thing. Of course, to make it fair you'd have to hobble the emulation, which will always have more features than an old hardware synth, so its' still not completely fair. in a fair comparison the softsynth will always win because it will always be better.

Some Emulations are as close as 2 of the same Analog synths can be but many of them are not the same.

Well, of course they aren't all good, that goes without saying. FBM, for example, doesn't even try to sound like the instrument he's "emulating", he just copies the functionality and layout, which is fine by me. FBM's MonoFury sounds better than my hardware MonoPoly ever did and, therefore, better than Korg's own emulation of it.

[Seafire Mk2]

Bands made amazing sounding songs in the 80s with synths using the most simplest of sounds

These days, it seems ppl are more interested in the most bizzare stuff about soft synths on places like this.

Nobody talks about songwriting, they argue about the most trivial rubbish for 150 pages

Pointless. Go away and write a song.

[vurt]

Bands made amazing sounding songs in the 80s with synths using the most simplest of sounds

These days, it seems ppl are more interested in the most bizzare stuff about soft synths on places like this.

Nobody talks about songwriting, they argue about the most trivial rubbish for 150 pages

Pointless. Go away and write a song.

you must be new here.

[Seafire Mk2]

Bands made amazing sounding songs in the 80s with synths using the most simplest of sounds

These days, it seems ppl are more interested in the most bizzare stuff about soft synths on places like this.

Nobody talks about songwriting, they argue about the most trivial rubbish for 150 pages

Pointless. Go away and write a song.

you must be new here.

Always

[machinesworking]

Bands made amazing sounding songs in the 80s with synths using the most simplest of sounds

These days, it seems ppl are more interested in the most bizzare stuff about soft synths on places like this.

Nobody talks about songwriting, they argue about the most trivial rubbish for 150 pages

Pointless. Go away and write a song.

you must be new here.

Always

you might want to get that checked!

[BONES]

It is interesting the way this thread has evolved and almost got back to where it kind of started, although I am still amazed that there are still so many people with their heads stuck up their arses when it comes to emulations. I was sure we'd crossed that river years ago but it seems some people just can't let go of the past.

Anyway, I'm off to play around with UVI Rumble for a while. It's my kind of synth - massive sound with a really straightforward workflow but still with plenty of features to give it a broad sonic palette. I wish more developers did stuff like this but, realistically, it's probably only this and NI's TRK-01 Bass that fit that bill, which is why I get stuck using so many emulations. Maybe with it's latest update I could include Audio Damage's Continua as well, now that it's got more/better filters. I need to play with it some more and see what I can get out of it. It needs a standalone version.