Best Physical Modeling Piano?

[gxlxnn]

Hi, I make my own jazzy samples for my music and then degrade them, so the quality of sound doesn't need to be as perfect as something like Pianoverse's 20gb pianos, I'm looking for something that performs well and allows me to get some unique piano sounds.

I've heard about Pianoteq and Piano V, any users with experience with both? are the differences worth the steep price on Pianoteq?

[IvyBirds]

I have both there is really nothing wrong with the Arturia Piano V and it will be all the piano most users need and should work fine for your needs. I sometimes regret buying pianoteq

Having said that I do a lot of degrading samples as you indicated, for that I like to use old Rompler Pianos. The Korg Triton Extreme plugin has some awesome sounding pianos and is currently on sale

[electricorange83]

Do the physical modelling pianos sound more realistic than sampled ones?

[jamcat]

I have both as well.

Piano V used to sound pretty fake, because it used a very old Pianoteq model licensed from Modartt. Piano V3 seems to use a newer Pianoteq engine, which sounds a bit better.

However, there is no contest between Piano V3 and the current version of Pianoteq. Just understand that Piano V3 is essentially just an old version of Pianoteq, around version 4, I think. Pianoteq is currently in version 9, and really started getting good around version 6 or 7.

[jamcat]

Do the physical modelling pianos sound more realistic than sampled ones?

Well, a single piano sample played in isolation is going to sound as realistic as it can, because it is a recording of a real piano. You won't be able to change anything about it, including the room it was recorded in or the miking technique that was used, but it will sound as real as it can for what it is.

Where physically modeled instruments come in is creating a more natural performance because every note is generated mathematically to the precise instantaneous conditions of the instrument, performance, and the energy currently in the system, which sampled instruments of course do not take into account, since every note is simply sampled from an inert state.

So, if the piano model is complete and nuanced enough, then it can exceed the realism of a sample piano in performance. I think Pianoteq has reached that milestone. There will always be something a physical model misses, but Pianoteq is to the point now where the differences due to holes in the model are quite insignificant, especially compared to the shortcomings of a piano performance collage cobbled together from a discrete set of piano samples.

[aMUSEd]

afaik the Arturia piano is built on Pianoteq tech but a few generations behind the current Pianoteq models, so good but not as good.

[jamcat]

I'm looking for something that performs well and allows me to get some unique piano sounds.
[…]
are the differences worth the steep price on Pianoteq?

That's something only you can determine. But for me, I am glad I got Pianoteq. It's particularly good for making unique character pianos. It's the difference between having a piano that fits your general requirements, and having the one that fits the sound in your head.

[gxlxnn]

I'm looking for something that performs well and allows me to get some unique piano sounds.
[…]
are the differences worth the steep price on Pianoteq?

That's something only you can determine. But for me, I am glad I got Pianoteq. It's particularly good for making unique character pianos. It's the difference between having a piano that fits your general requirements, and having the one that fits the sound in your head.

I see, I just want to be completely sure the quality is noticeable enough to justify the extra money im spending. I am leaning towards pianoteq because piano is such a key aspect of my workflow but Piano V Integrates with analog lab so well that it also brings a ton of comfort. Are Pianoteq's EP models good too? that would be a key deciding factor.

[simmo75]

Pianoteq is amazing.

[jamcat]

Are Pianoteq's EP models good too? that would be a key deciding factor.

Yes, all of the models are good.
The Pianoteq demo is actually very good for testing it out. It never expires, it just limits you to a 20 minute session (which you can just restart) and a few notes don't sound. You can test out the entire collection, including the EPs. That's really going to be the best way to get an idea of the quality.

Pianoteq is really all about piano and its relatives, though. Reeds and tines are quite a bit different physically than strings and soundboards, and I don't think Modartt put nearly as much time into modeling their physics. I think Arturia Wurli V3 is probably better. It has a softer, rounder sound more like what I would expect. Pianteq's Wurlitzer (Vintage Reeds) is a little thinner and harsher, and sounds more synthesized. But these differences aren't huge.

So in my estimation, Pianoteq's e-pianos are good, definitely usable, but they're probably not the very best you can get. But that's why you need to take the demo for a test drive yourself.

[Funky40]

+1 in Pianoteq.


no need for felt piano or anything like that by using samples.
You can tailor pianoteqs sound to whatever you want.
You just need to learn and master whats doable by adding some post-processing.

vs. EPs:
some SW is considered to sound better. The EP from AAs for example.
i have several, but i use Pianoteq also for EPs. The EPs just require some postprocessing to make them sound as good as the competition. But with it can sound even better. At least to me.
Well wait, just talking vs. "Rhodes" here

[Ou_Tis]

Do the physical modelling pianos sound more realistic than sampled ones?

Well, a single piano sample played in isolation is going to sound as realistic as it can, because it is a recording of a real piano. You won't be able to change anything about it, including the room it was recorded in or the miking technique that was used, but it will sound as real as it can for what it is.

Where physically modeled instruments come in is creating a more natural performance because every note is generated mathematically to the precise instantaneous conditions of the instrument, performance, and the energy currently in the system, which sampled instruments of course do not take into account, since every note is simply sampled from an inert state.

In particular, sampled pianos aren't going to reproduce the sympathetic resonance, though some virtual pianos combine samples with physically modeled resonance.

Most sampled pianos also don't have a different velocity layer for every possible midi velocity value, though there are some exceptions.

[gxlxnn]

I have both there is really nothing wrong with the Arturia Piano V and it will be all the piano most users need and should work fine for your needs. I sometimes regret buying pianoteq

Having said that I do a lot of degrading samples as you indicated, for that I like to use old Rompler Pianos. The Korg Triton Extreme plugin has some awesome sounding pianos and is currently on sale

Thats the part i need to test myself I think, because i do love me some good sounding keys, but if the difference are hundreds of dollars then i might just go with the more budget option if its still good.

Ive used Pianoverse before, its a massive sampled piano VST, 20gb of samples per patch, and I actually prefer Pianoteq's sound and some Piano V presets just sound a bit worse than pianoteq but still better than Pianoverse, so I think i'll have to do a ton of thinking about the value...

[gxlxnn]

+1 in Pianoteq.


no need for felt piano or anything like that by using samples.
You can tailor pianoteqs sound to whatever you want.
You just need to learn and master whats doable by adding some post-processing.

vs. EPs:
some SW is considered to sound better. The EP from AAs for example.
i have several, but i use Pianoteq also for EPs. The EPs just require some postprocessing to make them sound as good as the competition. But with it can sound even better. At least to me.
Well wait, just talking vs. "Rhodes" here

Ive used AA's EPs too, they feel good but I personally think they feel a bit softer, like not growly, maybe its just me though...

And about the pianos I get it, I know they're the best sounding ones, its just that since its not a small price tag I'm trying to rationalize it more, especially taking into account that I degrade my sound on purpose.

I saw the Age slider in Pianoteq, that might be amazing, I still have to test it to see if its worth it but it might be the deciding factor if Piano V doesnt have it. Being able to simulate age in a piano or EP sounds incredible

[jamcat]

vs. EPs:
some SW is considered to sound better. The EP from AAs for example.
i have several, but i use Pianoteq also for EPs. The EPs just require some postprocessing to make them sound as good as the competition. But with it can sound even better. At least to me.
Well wait, just talking vs. "Rhodes" here

I think Pianoteq's Rhodes (Vintage Tines MKI and MKII) are a bit better than its Wurlitzer, and stand up against Arturia better than Vintage Reeds. It's more debatable which one is the best, so I didn't go there. But the Wurlitzer debate is a lot more cut and dried.

I saw the Age slider in Pianoteq, that might be amazing, I still have to test it to see if its worth it but it might be the deciding factor if Piano V doesnt have it. Being able to simulate age in a piano or EP sounds incredible

Yes, age and hammer hardness are my main go-tos for creating more characterful pianos in Pianoteq. Arturia Piano V3 does not have it.