(working title) 2 dimensional chaos generator

[Architeuthis]

∞ x 0 = 1 which is actually not OK

You are right. 0 = 1 breaks reality. This becomes a question of "what equals what?". Earlier I proposed a starting value for the universe being either 0 or pi. I realize that I was stepping into the zero ring theory, the number system where 0 = 1 and every number equals every other: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_ring

…using this theory, the starting value doesn't matter: 0, pi, 1, they're all the same number (but only because the start of the universe is assumed to start as a singularity).

edit: this relates to dsp in that I can start a sinusoidal oscillation with any non-zero value... wait... it can't be zero... perhaps another logic break according to reality.

[Architeuthis]

here's a funny assumption my universe simulation makes: if it works, don't ask why, because asking why breaks the simulation

[Architeuthis]

"but why?"
"if you ask why, you no longer exist"

[antto]

here's a funny assumption my universe simulation makes: if it works, don't ask why, because asking why breaks the simulation

"but why?"
"if you ask why, you no longer exist"

you'll never learn anything that way

[Music Engineer]

I have a thought experiment / a dsp experiment that goes like this: analog can sound like it is aliasing if you FM with made up "aliasing reflected" sub/inharmonics. You can modulate as fast as you want in analog and never alias, but you do get those radio frequency metallic aliasy FM sounds in analog, the difference is that digital aliasing sucks and is ugly, analog "aliasing" is physics-based and pleasing (you get chaotic aliasing).

In frequency modulation, you get sidebands and if these go below 0 Hz, they do indeed reflect (e.g. 1000 - 1200 = -200 Hz gets reflected to 200 with polarity inversion) which is somewhat similar to aliasing. There is no upper reflection frequency, though (like the Nyquist freq).

[Architeuthis]

There is no upper reflection frequency, though (like the Nyquist freq).

I would have to prove that there is, and there could be, based on the circuit, or it's that the circuit is simulating a speed limit.

TRUE: analog has no speed limit theoretically
FALSE: analog circuits may not simulate a speed limit

For example, we can say an analog circuit is simulating a sinusoidal oscillation at 100hz, that definition creates other definitions, and again, the circuit is a simulation, not a limitation, in analog/reality.

Basically: I could make an analog circuit that simulates a 40,000hz frequency limit, but "aliases" nicely.

hint1: it's not actually aliasing, just sounds similar
hint2: the simulation doesn't prove anything
hint3: capacitors, for example, have a speed limit by design: charge/discharge speed

[nix808]

"the electrical energy or signal travels incredibly fast—between 50% and 99% of the speed of light (about \(200,000\) to \(300,000\) km/s)"

[Architeuthis]

I'm attempting to make a simulaiton of: https://www.moffenzeefmodular.com/blorg/bradley

code: https://github.com/soundemote/soemdsp-s ... ley_2a.cpp

This is my first attempt to show that aliasing is an arbitrary perception, or that we could create "pleasing" aliasing. I can't prove it because I need graphs instead of just ears. But let me ask you. Does this ever alias (based on the actual definition of aliasing)? I honestly can't tell.

edit: According to the waveshaper in the code, it aliases. I could fix that with a better simulated waveshaper design. But here's the thought experiment: I could simulate aliasing just by generating sinewaves in an aliasing pattern. Aliasing becomes an arbitrary perception when I start doing silly things that.

SO THAT WE DON'T LOSE THE PLOT: My point is that pleasing (non-un-pleasing?) sounds that are "aliasing-sounding" (sounds like aliasing but is not aliasing) are possible in digital and analog. Be careful basing truth on ears.

[antto]

if you want to have aliasing that sounds good in analog(ue), then just make an analog decimator - run the signal thru a Sample&Hold, modulate it with 40kHz or whatever you like and enjoy

[Architeuthis]

if you want to have aliasing that sounds good in analog(ue), then just make an analog decimator - run the signal thru a Sample&Hold, modulate it with 40kHz or whatever you like and enjoy

Yes, I've done that with flower child filter downsampled mode to demonstrate analog-style sample & hold (already implemented in soundemote.io/sandbox).

AI/COMPLETE: https://github.com/soundemote/soemdsp-s ... filter.cpp
human/multifile/easier to read: https://gitlab.com/Hickler/soundemotefr ... lterCore.h (search for 'downsampl')

warning: The reason the ai code is so verbose is because I'm having the ai quickly write everything without a library to help.

[Architeuthis]

so what about the opposite: sounds that are definitely aliasing and sounds pleasing: time dithering. Music Engineer, didnt you make a supersaw that uses this concept? It sounds very nice... oh, I can make a demo hold on... DEMO SOON!

[Architeuthis]

here's a funny assumption my universe simulation makes: if it works, don't ask why, because asking why breaks the simulation

"but why?"
"if you ask why, you no longer exist"

you'll never learn anything that way

Philosophically (arguably): it has to be this way, because I'm doing math with infinity. I'm defining infinity and if you ask why it's defined like that, the answer is "shrug" because I'm allowing myself one given definition for one undefined.

rationale: if you ask why, i send you to the black hole

[Music Engineer]

Music Engineer, didnt you make a supersaw that uses this concept? It sounds very nice...

I made a saw.

https://github.com/RobinSchmidt/RS-MET/ ... thering.md

I got that idea in the supersaw thread here:

viewtopic.php?p=9189004#p9189004

...and yeah - I also made a supersaw somewhere in my research repo but that is not yet production ready. But the single saw is:

https://github.com/RobinSchmidt/RS-MET/ ... therOscs.h

...and one can of course, just use 7 of them to produce a supersaw. I'm really bad at finishing things. I always work the algorithms out and then I just leave them be without ever doing anything with them.

[Architeuthis]

AI/VERBOSE: https://github.com/soundemote/soemdsp-s ... persaw.cpp (not free for commercial use, see RS-MET license: https://github.com/RobinSchmidt/RS-MET)

I love the pitch dithering, this is peak, imo.

[Music Engineer]

Nice! Yes! I also like pitch dithering! I think, for the supersaw, the noisyness may actually be not so bad because the supersaws want a dense spectrum in the upper range anyway

Oh - and by the way: with a highpass at or just below the fundamental (just like Roland did), it becomes even better in upper key-range. We don't really need the highpass for "anti-aliasing" anymore, but it still helps to get the noise under control