Tracktion 2 - excuse me for being cynical

[quincy]

First off let me say that i'm not a tracktion user and i don't actually know what exactly the whole T2 package will entail.

However, i read this announcement that its being realeased as a boxed product at $199. Don't get me wrong, when i had tracktion it seemed like an excellent and easy to use sequencer with some great features, and i don't doubt T2 will be a great package.

What bothers me is that it used to be an $80 program. Nice and easy for beginners, and a beginner price tag.

$199 is not a beginner price tag. I'm a little sceptical that now the software is more popular and been bought by a big company, they are trying to slot it in as another contender against the "big 4" or whatever.

Seems a shame that a large part of the original target market (or so it seemed) will be left out i.e. beginners with little money.

I dunno, maybe its cos its late and i'm tired and grumpy, but it seems like the hand of big business results in price hike and alienation of the original conecpt - a budget sequencer accessible to all.

Maybe i should get some sleep and stop being cynical

[smp]

That's what I thought as well, quincy. However, maybe T2 is closer to Jules' master plan and the cheap sequencer for beginners was just one step along the way.

It looks nice, but I've made my sequencer choice and if eXT ever stops keeping me happy, at $199 T2 is just that one step further away.

Then again, not being a Tracktion user and not looking to change sequencers anytime soon, I'm probably not Tracktion's target audience anyway.

-s

[NAS]

Im an avid T user and i have to agree to the most part ,Im not a beginner and have been making music for twenty years since i was twelve infact ,The worry i have is that a load of cutdown(Full version is extra) plugins from big named third party suppliers has been added just to bump the price up ,What happens when Mackie have decided they have had enough of this product (Like so many before) and Jules has to go back to selling online at a smaller price and customers investment into the Mackie version are lost ,I dunno im probably just worried because i have no plans on ever switching to a different seqeuncer but

1 The price gets higher and higher from Mackie and i just cant afford it

2 T doesn't make enough and Jules has to stop development

really scares me off a lot ,I wouldn't upgrade to T2 because im happy with T now but i doubt there will be any updates to T1 and its still full of bugs its a big shame really but then money does spin this planet of ours

[Jeremy_NSL]

Well, the features they added come at a price: Quicktime, hardware and midi stuff, 64-bit engine, free commercial plugins (seriously, rmiv and slayer2 for FREE!? even assuming everything else sucks, thats pretty cool)

Its still missing a few things to be considered totally 'pro' - notation, lyrics, surround support. But lets face it, the hosts that support that stuff are alot more than $199.

And finally, I think the $80-$199 jump is more that T1 was insanely cheap than T2 being overpriced.

All this said, I am hoping for a good T1-T2 upgrade deal since we helped Jules get this far

[Lunch Money]

Fair enough, Q, but as mentioned Tracktion wasn't intended as a "beginner sequencer". The $80 price tag was certainly very nice, and when I was recommending T1 to people, it was a 'selling feature'.

There has been some minor speculation (and remember, this is speculation and rumour only!) that T1 will become Tracktion CM to be given away monthly with Computer Music magazine (replacing CMuzys). That would certainly give beginners an even better entryway into the world of computer recording.

The recent T1 "NFR" giveaway was mainly a marketing move in order to create a new audience for the T2 upgrade. I'm not naive enough to believe otherwise. However, it was ALSO a bit of a generous move since it also put a sequencer in the hands of someone who cannot afford $199 and possibly not even the original $80.

However, it would be generous to a fault to maintain such a low price when there is a whole new set of expenses associated with the new product, not the least of which being Jules' wage. $199 still keeps it between the Cubase SE and SL price ranges (noticeably cheaper than SL, actually), for a product that has every probability of being superior to SL, and for many people will be superior to SX.

So, while it may not be the ideal "bargain beginner's choice" any more, it certainly meets the "bargain" part of that equation compared to its feature set. And, as mentioned already (but important to mention again) T was never marketed as "for beginners" by RMS, but rather by word of mouth as many of us knew it would be beginner- and pocketbook- friendly.

In summary, I don't think anybody's been let down, the price seems completely fair compared to other products of the same class, and if anything the new T2 is quite in keeping with RMS and Jules' plan for global domination.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, though-- I'm sure you're not the only person who was surprised by the $80 to $199 leap.

NAS-- I wouldn't say T1 is "full of bugs". In my particular way of making music I almost never encounter any bugs and it's exceptionally stable. The famous "dropped note" issue really could have been fixed, but that's the only real "bug" I can think of.

Greg

[NAS]

Yep T1 was underpriced but lets not forget it was missing a lot of features and is still full of bugs ,That is a situation that was not too bad when Jules was around for updates and so on but now most people put ownership of T to Mackie and that isn't exceptable ,At the price point of $199 T has just lost at least five sales from members of my band that will now end up using some crap like Cubasis which really is a shame ,I just worry that the last really nice CHEAP sequencer has bit the dust ,Lets not forget that this is the first Mackie release and its already $119 dearer than it was and there is nothing stopping them charging for an upgrade to 2.5 and the raising the bar again at 3 ,Believe me this is business and Mackie will milk every last penny out of T before they throw it away in favour of the next big thing.

Right before anyone whines i love EXT and FL and own both but for your average band member they just wont cut it ,They both have too many features in a very unergonormic setup and nothing nothing has a workflow like T ,Infact i would even go as far as saying EXT and T1 blow away T2 when used together and is a lot cheaper aswell.

[NAS]

LM im not arguing but you know that already BUT
T really is full of bugs and from previous posts i know you dont use MIDI much so i wont plow through em here ,Believe me its a lot more than the missin note thing though.

[Lunch Money]

I guess I'll just have to take your word for it.

As for your band members-- well that's really their loss. It's amazing for me that a band would have even considered "Hey let's buy a copy each." If you're interested in cutting a demo on your own, a band will USUALLY say "OK, let's pool our resources and/or use the 'band account' and buy ONE copy so that we can record this demo together."

$199 divided by 5 is still only $40 each. Hardly a bank-breaker for a serious band. $199 still isn't all that much for a serious musician as an individual, either. I mean, a 'cheap but respectable' guitar will only start at $400, so the price of half that for a studio in your house? Somebody needs to get some perspective.

If it's really THAT much, there are other budget options to be considered, such as Magix Home Studio. Nobody's making anyone buy T2, and if $199 isn't the right price for "your average band member" then obviously it's the wrong tool for them and it's not being marketed for them anyhow. Myself, I believe that for any musician who cares enough about their music to invest in it, $199 (msrp only) will still be a bargain; or, they can buy the hardware that ends up shipping with T2 and make the bargain even better (surely part of Mackie's marketing strategy, no?).

Still, if T1 becomes Tracktion CM, all this is a bunch of hot air because it'll officially be the bargain of the century at the cost of a magazine.

Greg

[koolkeys]

With MIDI, T isn't really full of bugs. It does what it was designed to do. I doesn't have the depth that some programs have, but then again, it wasn't designed to be a MIDI app. That was added later.

Tracktion 1 is the most stable program I've ever used. And at different times, at home and in other studios, I've used most of the biggies. It's not perfect, I'll give you that. But if you compare it to the Cubase SX line, I guarantee that Tracktion is more stable. Now, I don't use every feature. And I could be off in my opinion.

I'm happy with what's been added. And there's many more features which we don't even know about yet. I'm sure it will be well worth the price. I'm already setting the money aside.

Koolkeys

[NAS]

Tracktion CM sounds cool but on your other points your wrong ,The members of my band all twelve of them have their own studios that they record music in and would not find it very useful to have to go to somebody elses studio to use the sequencer ,Im sorry if your attitude is that if they cant afford it it isn't for them because ultimatly that is bullshit and we both know that ,The reason i say this is because if people cant afford it they will just go out and DL the crack and T2 will be cracked because of the hype surouunding it ,Now we can all sit here and say how terrible these people are and so on and so forth but the fact remains it will happen.

Still i can tell the others that T1 may well still get a little support via CM and thanx for the info.

[Cosmic Bandito]

T1 was sort of like an eternal beta program for $80 if you used alot of midi and loop style recording (it was for me at least ). I own a license and if midi's solid I'll gladly pay the upgrade price - it's still a real bargain me thinks...

[NAS]

With MIDI, T isn't really full of bugs. It does what it was designed to do. I doesn't have the depth that some programs have, but then again, it wasn't designed to be a MIDI app. That was added later.

Tracktion 1 is the most stable program I've ever used. And at different times, at home and in other studios, I've used most of the biggies. It's not perfect, I'll give you that. But if you compare it to the Cubase SX line, I guarantee that Tracktion is more stable. Now, I don't use every feature. And I could be off in my opinion.

I'm happy with what's been added. And there's many more features which we don't even know about yet. I'm sure it will be well worth the price. I'm already setting the money aside.

Koolkeys

No it really is full of bugs concerning GUI issues and so on
1 Dropped notes
2 GUI parts not refreshing properly
3 VST's with pass through interfaces
4 Disappearing project files
5 Losing samples from sampler presets
6 Looping weirdness
Shall i go on
Im not saying T1 isn't great im saying it wasn't ever completly stable which is something a lot of people believe ,Still i can say its never crashed on me once in two years or so

[Joseph Burrell]

I'm one of the few people here that just jumped on the bandwagon. I bought T1 a week or so ago and it was the singularly most important decision I have made music wise. It was liberating to finally use a program that wasn't so cluttered with interface or was boggling to use right off. Yes, the midi would leave a lot to be desired for some pro applications I'm sure, but it does get the job done. I'm secretly hoping for a slimmed down version of 2 that maybe doesn't have the extra plugs and is a bit cheaper and for download, but hey, I'll be happy to support the team that gave me T1 and hopefully I will be as happy with 2 as I was with the first one. If not, well, I'll just have to move onto something else. From what's been said/shown so far, I don't think I'll be dissapointed as it looks like the left the greatest features intact (ease of use, very graphically intuative, no mixer) and improved some of the more lacking aspects like midi. If they don't break it, I hope to be a part of the legion here and will happy throw all my money Jules' way. After using it these past two weeks I don't know that I could go back to Cubase or its ilk. I hope I don't have to find out. Regardless, and back to the point, I think everyone's a little excited at this point, and I'm sure all the details haven't been shown yet and I'm crossing my fingers that they treat upgraders good (they did say upgrading would be cheaper than buying outright.) I am somewhat concerned that they will be losing market share, but that's in their hands. If the product is worth the money, the users will come. I would like to see it retain its attraction to newcomers and veterans alike, but it really isn't any of my concern at this point. It is affordable if the upgrade holds true for me, since I'm basically paying in installments so I'm not worried. But, as I said, I would like to see something in the offing for users that don't want all the 'lite' plugs and a download option. This would put it right back into the category that I feel is perfect for it. Who knows? Only Mackie and the Tracktion team.

[Jeremy_NSL]

Tracktion CM sounds cool but on your other points your wrong ,The members of my band all twelve of them have their own studios that they record music in...

I for sure understand having a small budget for music... But seriously, if people have 'studio's' and can't afford a sequencer for $200, what do you actually have in your studio? Guitars, amps, mics, drums, monitors, mixers, keyboards etc. etc. will all run thousands of $. T2 is just another expense, and considering the sequencer is the heart of any studio I don't see $199 as ridiculous.

[3*s]

Yeah, it's kinda lame to package a sequencer with extra software just to give it a more "pro" pricetag, however this is what you're getting:

Slayer2
Sample Tank SE
Sample Tank SE Loops
Amplitube LE
bs-1 (Soundfont player)
RMIV
Mackie ZR-3 (Organ Sim)
Final Mix (Mastering Software)

So really it's not a bad deal.