Plugin pricing in the AI era

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35mm wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2026 10:10 pm It can be useful as a dev. when you send it off to do a bit of coding for you, especially DSP or something complicated, but you always have to go through and check it, or at least fix it. But, it's useful for pushing the pen around. It certainly is a time saver for coding, but you have to be able to tell it what to code. I think that's where non coders fall down.
That's his entire point. I think you're conflating software engineering (i.e. the art and practice of engineering a piece of software) and coding (the part of it that was typing text in programming languages, to incarnate the abstract ideas you developed at those more abstract levels of software engineering that precede coding itself).

He meant that, while the majority of actual work/effort/time in software engineering as such was coding itself, even in senior roles, and that era is absolutely gone, and now the new normal is that the majority of the work/effort/time in software engineering has become architecture, planning, choosing technologies and design patterns, and setting contstraints and contracts that narrow the scope for the LLM tools enough so that they churn out exactly the type of code that software developer otherwise would.

Having said that, coding, as such, isn't entirely gone. A good developer already knew that the job is 80% reading code and 20% writing it. They're now learning to offset about half of the former, and vast majority of the latter, to an LLM. But you still need to read what it wrote to evaluate it (or find bugs) and write code (to fix those that are much easier/quicker for you to fix by writing code then telling the agent to do it).

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stoopicus wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2026 10:53 pm One thing that cracks you up early on is that AI basically leans hard on... printf debugging :lol:
That's entirely understandable though if you realize what they are. They're text processors. Interactive tools are absolutely useless to them. They need to be able to do run->output->evaluate->correct loops quickly, and printing to console is one of the by far the quickest, most controllable ways of doing it.

What comes next suddenly stops being as funny, as they excel and thrive at TDD, unlike most software developers (that I ever met) that shudder at the very idea.

I expect the advent of LLMs to fuel development of fast (perhaps eventually JIT) interpreters for majority of traditional compiled static languages, as LLMs absolutely thrive in shortened loops and when unatended and not properly pre-contexted, they'll jump at any opportunity to build code and have it run rather than do any other kind of analysis, static or otherwise.

They absolutely thrive in typed interpreted languages, and the sole reason isn't that they're somehow "easier", it's simply that the loops are way, way shorter.

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floofaudio wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2026 10:11 am
But I do dread the day when someone with absolutely no developer experience can prompt a complete sophisticated plugin with fewer bugs than a senior developer would make. I don’t know how far away that is, but at that point the price should really be almost free.
I think everyone is ignoring or missing a central point about AI coding, specifically Vibe coding like this, tho possibly applicable to any plugin where the code was 100% generated by some AI agent...

Type this into Google and see what you get: "US Copyright Office AI ruling"

The two first points are probably most important here:

No Copyright for Autonomous AI Art: The USCO consistently refuses to register works generated entirely by AI. This stance was cemented when the Supreme Court declined to hear Thaler v. Perlmutter, leaving in place lower court rulings that AI-generated art lacks the required human creator.

Prompting is Not Authorship: The Office has explicitly stated that the mere act of writing prompts (like those used in Midjourney or ChatGPT) does not make the user an "author"


So a plugin generated by prompting alone (no matter how much real architectural or systems work you've done) is not copyrightable, and thus anyone can take the work (in this case a plugin) and either resell it or give it away for free, effectively killing the economic model for this sort of development...
VST/AU Developer for Hire

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You're conflating "AI-assisted" with "AI-authored". The US Copyright Office has said that purely autonomous AI output without sufficient human creative contribution isn't copyrightable. It has not said that every piece of software developed with AI assistance automatically falls into the public domain.

Also keep in mind that US law is not global law. Copyright rules vary significantly between jurisdictions, and a conclusion based solely on a US Copyright Office decision cannot simply be applied worldwide.

Real-world software development usually involves substantial human authorship: defining the architecture, making design decisions, reviewing, modifying, debugging, testing and integrating the generated code. Those human contributions are exactly what copyright law evaluates.

Your conclusion that "anyone can take the plugin and resell it" only follows if the plugin is genuinely created autonomously by AI with no meaningful human authorship. That's a much narrower scenario than AI-assisted software development in general.

Even in the rare case where parts of the generated code are not copyrightable, that doesn't automatically mean there are no legal protections. Trademarks, patents, trade secrets, software licenses, contractual restrictions, and distribution agreements may still apply. Copyright is only one part of the legal framework surrounding commercial software.

It is not as simple as it looks :)
“The biggest crime of a musician is to play notes instead of making music.”
Isaac Stern

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Tiles wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 9:23 am You're conflating "AI-assisted" with "AI-authored". The US Copyright Office has said that purely autonomous AI output without sufficient human creative contribution isn't copyrightable. It has not said that every piece of software developed with AI assistance automatically falls into the public domain.
Correct, but I am not conflating these two, I clearly said prompt based (Vibe) coding but, as you rightly point out, its not so simple for "assisted" development: you should go read the entire answer I pointed at - here is more of it:

The U.S. Copyright Office (USCO) maintains that only works created by a human author are eligible for copyright protection. Purely AI-generated content produced without meaningful human creative input cannot be copyrighted, as human authorship is a "bedrock requirement" of U.S. copyright law.Core rulings and legal stances from the USCO and the courts include:

No Copyright for Autonomous AI Art: The USCO consistently refuses to register works generated entirely by AI. This stance was cemented when the Supreme Court declined to hear Thaler v. Perlmutter, leaving in place lower court rulings that AI-generated art lacks the required human creator.

Prompting is Not Authorship: The Office has explicitly stated that the mere act of writing prompts (like those used in Midjourney or ChatGPT) does not make the user an "author" of the resulting AI output, as the prompt is simply giving instructions to the machine.

Protection for "Human-Driven" AI Works: If a human uses AI as a tool to create, they can only copyright the specific, human-authored elements they add. For example, the USCO has granted copyright for the text and overall selection/arrangement of a graphic novel, but denied it to the specific AI-generated images themselves.

Copyright Registration Guidance: When applying for registration, applicants must formally disclose if any portion of their work was generated by AI and disclaim ownership of those AI-generated portions to avoid invalidating their registration.

So if you look back I was talking about prompt based development (Vibe-coding) which does fall into this ruling, and the ruling further makes the distinction that any part of a delivered product that was generated by AI should be identified and excluded from copyright.
Tiles wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 9:23 am Also keep in mind that US law is not global law. Copyright rules vary significantly between jurisdictions, and a conclusion based solely on a US Copyright Office decision cannot simply be applied worldwide.
Again correct, but the US has trade agreements with the vast majority of developed and developing countries, that stipulate this sort of copyright ruling should be enforced by each country. So "in general" this ruling is applicable for the vast majority of situations where plugins will be on sale, and those where it does not apply may possibly be "rogue" nations who are just going to copy your work anyway....
Tiles wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 9:23 am Real-world software development usually involves substantial human authorship: defining the architecture, making design decisions, reviewing, modifying, debugging, testing and integrating the generated code. Those human contributions are exactly what copyright law evaluates.
Again, correct about these activities, but incorrect about the evaluation. Once the developer hits the prompt all the code produced is not copyrightable, and it is difficult to see how all that other "engineering" can be identified as "part of the product" when it is not a fungible element, so it may well not affect the copyright itself. The important phrase here is "human-authored elements " - not "human-authored activities".

Each document you produce in support of your development (architecture,, test plan etc.) each of which may well be 100% human-authored, has its own copyright and is not part of the copyright on the final work. I agree these are important activities but they do not infer any copyright over the final product. You seem to have confused activity(reviewing, testing etc.) with output here. Activities that contribute to a work are not copyrightable, only fungible objects are.
Tiles wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 9:23 am Your conclusion that "anyone can take the plugin and resell it" only follows if the plugin is genuinely created autonomously by AI with no meaningful human authorship. That's a much narrower scenario than AI-assisted software development in general.
The UCSO (above) is very clear about what it considers human authorship, and using prompts is not considered authorship, so no matter how much "pre and post work" you do unless you can identify specific elements of the final product that are a directly authored by a human, and declare them to the USCO, then my understanding from the above is that the work would not be copyrightable.
Tiles wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 9:23 am Even in the rare case where parts of the generated code are not copyrightable, that doesn't automatically mean there are no legal protections. Trademarks, patents, trade secrets, software licenses, contractual restrictions, and distribution agreements may still apply. Copyright is only one part of the legal framework surrounding commercial software.

It is not as simple as it looks :)
Clearly this will not be rare - we already have vibe coded plugins, which was the specific case I was actually talking about, but lets look at each of your examples in turn:

Trademarks - yes - but this requires a registration process on the part of the developer(not trivial) and if someone removes the logo(or the plugins logo) this may well render this an even less effective defence than it already is. Essentially the vendor would have to prove the defendant was harming the trade mark in some way - As Im not modifying the plugin to its detriment I cant see how this applies here.
Patents - yes - a patent is the right to sue, against a specific and very explicit documented implementation which solves a unique problem. So your vibe coded new compressor wont qualify, even your entirely hand coded compressor wont qualify. You must register: getting it is hard, and expensive and difficult (and may not even be possible given the above ruling by the USCO)
Trade Secrets - have no legal standing, if I have not uncovered your trade secret by illegal means then there's no way to persue me - and I bought your plugin quite legally so it was openly available and not a trade secret.
Software Licenses - if you do not own copyright over a work then the utility of a software license is close to Nill. I cannot offer a software license over a piece of any 3rd party copyright-free work, the same applies here.
Contractual Restrictions - can only be effectively applied to things you own and have copyright over...
Distribution Agreements - see Contractual Restrictions

But yes you are right its not as simple as it looks, but it closer than you think.
VST/AU Developer for Hire

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I think you're making one assumption that simply hasn't been established in law.

You're treating every line initially generated by AI as permanently "AI-authored", regardless of how extensively it is reviewed, modified, refactored or rewritten by a human afterwards.

That's not what the US Copyright Office has said.

Their guidance distinguishes between AI-generated material and human-authored material within the final work. It does not state that software produced through an iterative AI-assisted development process is automatically uncopyrightable as a whole.

In software development, the final source code and the sourace code expressing it, is the work. If a developer substantially edits, restructures, rewrites or replaces AI-generated code, those resulting parts are human-authored elements of the software, not merely "activities" that happened during development.

I also think you're extending current USCO guidance beyond what it actually says. Most of the existing guidance and case law concerns images and text, not complex software projects. Whether a predominantly vibe-coded application with extensive human engineering is copyrightable is still largely an open legal question.

There is also a practical issue with your argument: how would anyone prove that a particular codebase was entirely AI-generated? Unlike plagiarism, there is currently no reliable forensic method to distinguish AI-written code from human-written code. In many cases, that would become an evidentiary issue rather than a purely legal one.

Even if you reverse engineer a closed-source plugin, you still cannot determine whether the original source code was written by a human, generated by AI, or heavily rewritten afterwards.

Regarding "anyone can take the plugin and resell it"

I think your conclusion is still too broad. Even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that AI-generated source code itself is not copyrightable, a commercial plugin typically contains many other copyrightable assets. Icons, UI graphics, logos, documentation, presets, installers, and other resources like frameworks can all have their own copyright and licensing conditions.

Also, the assumption that non-copyrightable AI-generated code automatically makes the whole product public domain is incorrect. If you build a product using GPL-licensed frameworks or other licensed components, those licenses still apply. And especially GPL is toxic, turning the whole project into GPL then. Licensing is a very special mine field. The resulting product does not suddenly become public domain just because some generated code might lack copyright protection.

Software is usually a combination of many different copyrighted and licensed elements. Copying and redistributing the entire product would require dealing with all of those rights and obligations. So "anyone can take the plugin and resell it" simply does not follow from the USCO guidance. That's the fastest way to face a lawsuit.

As I said, it's not that simple. There is a reason why lawyers are already spending so much time on these questions :)

EDIT: There is already a case in Germany illustrating exactly this problem. A person argued along the same lines: the song was AI-generated, therefore it was not protected. However, the lyrics had been written by a human author and were protected independently from the AI-generated music. The court ruled in favour of the original songwriter. The important point is that a product is not automatically "free to use" just because AI was involved somewhere in the creation process. Different elements of a work can have different copyright status.

LG Frankfurt am Main vom 17.12.2025 (Az. 2-06 O 401/25)
“The biggest crime of a musician is to play notes instead of making music.”
Isaac Stern

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I think you are presenting a straw-man. I said nothing, in my original post about code that was substantially authored, or modified by a human, I was ONLY talking about clearly VIBE-CODED plugins, which is what the poster I was responding to was referring to...

"The important point is that a product is not automatically "free to use" just because AI was involved somewhere in the creation process"

..and I made no such assertion.
VST/AU Developer for Hire

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I don't think that was a straw man. It was simply the logical consequence of the conclusions you drew, especially the conclusion that such a plugin could be easily taken and resold.
“The biggest crime of a musician is to play notes instead of making music.”
Isaac Stern

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I have question for you geeks that have some technical insider knowledge of how coding a plugin is working : how is it possible that AI is so advanced, and yet a plugin dev like Kush Audio is not able to deliver reliable Apple Silicon updates of its plugins (I have some cpu consumption issue with TWK since its Apple Silicon updates).
What I mean is that it doesn’t seem AI is the graal when there is still so much issues with quite a lot of well established devs…

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gearwatcher wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 7:43 am
stoopicus wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2026 10:53 pm One thing that cracks you up early on is that AI basically leans hard on... printf debugging :lol:
That's entirely understandable though if you realize what they are. They're text processors. Interactive tools are absolutely useless to them. They need to be able to do run->output->evaluate->correct loops quickly, and printing to console is one of the by far the quickest, most controllable ways of doing it.

What comes next suddenly stops being as funny, as they excel and thrive at TDD, unlike most software developers (that I ever met) that shudder at the very idea.

I expect the advent of LLMs to fuel development of fast (perhaps eventually JIT) interpreters for majority of traditional compiled static languages, as LLMs absolutely thrive in shortened loops and when unatended and not properly pre-contexted, they'll jump at any opportunity to build code and have it run rather than do any other kind of analysis, static or otherwise.

They absolutely thrive in typed interpreted languages, and the sole reason isn't that they're somehow "easier", it's simply that the loops are way, way shorter.
Yep, agree with all of this.

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Tiles wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 11:34 am I don't think that was a straw man. It was simply the logical consequence of the conclusions you drew, especially the conclusion that such a plugin could be easily taken and resold.
You ascribe to me statements I have not made, and positions I do not hold, then present arguments against those positions and statements. This is the very definition of strawman.

Let me be clear for you:

If the developer of a plugin has included within that plugin any amount of code authored by a human, then that portion of the code base is copyrightable.

"authored" does not mean writing prompts for an AI agent.

If however the entire codebase is the result of prompts to an AI system, then no part of that codebase is copyrightable. It does not matter if those prompts were the result of extensive human testing, design, systems architecture work or any other process involving humans.

So in the case I referred to originally, Vibe coded plugins, these plugins are NOT copyrightable and can be freely copied by anyone. YMMV
VST/AU Developer for Hire

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Calagan wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 1:08 pm I have question for you geeks that have some technical insider knowledge of how coding a plugin is working : how is it possible that AI is so advanced, and yet a plugin dev like Kush Audio is not able to deliver reliable Apple Silicon updates of its plugins (I have some cpu consumption issue with TWK since its Apple Silicon updates).
What I mean is that it doesn’t seem AI is the graal when there is still so much issues with quite a lot of well established devs…
I have no knowledge of the internal operation of Kush Audio. Here are some guesses.

1. They don't use AI. Some devs are worried about dumping all their IP into the IP stealing machine that is AI.

2. They don't care. macOS users are a small enough slice of their customer base they don't prioritize it.

3. They prioritize new products over fixing old ones. New products bring in money, maintenance doesn't.

4. The plugins "work fine" on their machines, the issues are on a small subset of Apple Silicon machines, and it's not worth the effort to track down why.

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I repeat, I don't think I have introduced a strawman at all. This originates from your statement that "anyone can take the plugin and resell it", which I strongly disagree with. The discussion is simply the logical consequence of that statement.

I responded to the conclusions and implications of your detailed post, not to a position you never stated. If your actual position is limited to a 100% prompt-generated codebase with no human-authored code or other protected elements, then that is a much narrower claim and a different scenario.

There is also a fundamental difference between generating an image and generating software. A software prompt is often not just a description of an output, but a specification of behaviour, logic and structure. Describing algorithms, interfaces, data flow and edge cases is already a significant part of traditional software engineering.

So in my opinion, there is no such clear category as "purely vibe-coded plugins" in the same sense as AI-generated images. The boundary between instruction and authorship is much less clear in software, and that is exactly the point that still needs clarification: it is not settled yet.

I can even understand why it may feel like a strawman from your perspective, but my intention was not to misrepresent your position. I was trying to point out that the real-world situation is more complex than this simplified conclusion.
“The biggest crime of a musician is to play notes instead of making music.”
Isaac Stern

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Calagan wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 1:08 pm I have question for you geeks that have some technical insider knowledge of how coding a plugin is working : how is it possible that AI is so advanced, and yet a plugin dev like Kush Audio is not able to deliver reliable Apple Silicon updates of its plugins (I have some cpu consumption issue with TWK since its Apple Silicon updates).
What I mean is that it doesn’t seem AI is the graal when there is still so much issues with quite a lot of well established devs…
The short answer is: writing code is only one part of software development.

A plugin like those from Kush Audio is not just a collection of algorithms. It involves DSP code, platform-specific code, GUI frameworks, audio thread constraints, memory management, installers, signing, DAW compatibility, testing across many hosts, and years of accumulated legacy code.

AI is currently very good at generating or modifying isolated pieces of code, explaining APIs, finding bugs, and helping with repetitive tasks. But maintaining a mature commercial plugin is a systems engineering problem. You need a complete understanding of the architecture, all dependencies, the build environment, and thousands of edge cases.

Apple Silicon migration is a good example. A plugin might compile perfectly for ARM and still have problems because of third-party libraries, CPU feature handling, memory alignment, old optimizations, GUI frameworks, audio buffer handling, or compatibility issues with specific DAWs.

So AI can make a developer faster, but it does not magically replace years of product knowledge, testing infrastructure and engineering experience.

And then add real-time constraints to the beast...
“The biggest crime of a musician is to play notes instead of making music.”
Isaac Stern

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Tiles wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2026 3:13 pm

So in my opinion, there is no such clear category as "purely vibe-coded plugins" in the same sense as AI-generated images. The boundary between instruction and authorship is much less clear in software, and that is exactly the point that still needs clarification: it is not settled yet.
yet the USCO has a clarified position:

Prompting is Not Authorship: The Office has explicitly stated that the mere act of writing prompts (like those used in Midjourney or ChatGPT) does not make the user an "author" of the resulting AI output, as the prompt is simply giving instructions to the machine.

..but yes until its tested in some way we can all hold to our opinions.
VST/AU Developer for Hire

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