hostsusing 24 bit or 16 bit

[mickios]

i have heard a few times that logic uses 24-bitprocessing when cubase uses 16-bit and that gives logic the better sound.can someone please explain where does those specs refer to.(i am not talking about bitrate(i think anyway))and perhaps whats the story with pro tools what do those bad boys use
thank

[DuX]

Short answer: every modern host nowadays uses 32-bit processing, be it fixed-point or mostly floating-point 32-bit processing. Next step will be double precision processing [64-bit] which most of the todays better plugins use internally. I don't know which processing Logic uses, but Cubase certainly doesn't use 16-bit processing.

Cheers.

[Warmonger]

Next step will be double precision processing [64-bit] which most of the todays better plugins use internally.

The VST spec currently requires VST output to be 32-bit floats, so I'm not convinced that most plugs will be using 64-bits internally, at least not until the next version of VST is out.

[flex42]

AFAIK for example Voxengo, PSP and iZotope stuff does...

[Lunch Money]

I could be mistaken, but isn't it called "internal 64-bit" because the plug-in does its own calculations (which are performed completely independently of the host) in 64-bit before 'passing' the final results to the host in 32-bit form?

Greg

[Warmonger]

I'm not saying it can't be done. It's a simple case of using double's instead of float's, and converting from one to the other at input and output. I just don't think 64 bits will make up the vast majority of plugins until the spec is updated.

Mind you, this is just a prediction of mine, not fact. I could very easily be wrong.

[DuX]

I could be mistaken, but isn't it called "internal 64-bit" because the plug-in does its own calculations (which are performed completely independently of the host) in 64-bit before 'passing' the final results to the host in 32-bit form?

Greg

Exactly And when Steiny and the family start using this "internal 64-bit precision"... it's gonna be lovely. Just don't confuse this with 64-bit CPU's and 64-bit systems, nothing to do with that, although it's gonna help

Cheers.

[Lunch Money]

As soon as the 64-bit OS hits retail desktops, it'll be golden. The software developers will re-compile and re-optimize for 64-bit internal precision, and then the plug-in developers will follow suit. Since we already have 64-bit processors, the OS is the key ingredient that's missing right now.

It'll be a domino effect, and I'm wagering that once that next step is taken (the OS), the rest will fall into place very quickly.

FWIW, Tracktion 2 already features 64-bit internal precision. But without VSTs outputting 64-bit, that won't matter (yet).

[Warmonger]

Note that I attributed the CS performance increase to x86-64's larger number of registers, and not the increased register width. On applications that do not require the extended dynamic range afforded by larger integers (and this covers the vast majority of applications, including games), the only kind of performance increase that you can expect from a straight 64-bit port is whatever additional performance you get from having more memory available. As I said earlier, 64-bitness, by itself, doesn't really improve performance for anything but the rare 64-bit integer application. In the case of x86-64, it's the added registers and other changes that actually account for better performance on normal apps like games.

[pHz]

FWIW, Tracktion 2 already features 64-bit internal precision. But without VSTs outputting 64-bit, that won't matter (yet).

from what i undstood of the heated discussions about this a while back here i THINK it will still make a difference ...

... doesnt internal precision have an effect on the summing of your tracks before output ???

slainte rob

[Lunch Money]

I must not have been there for that heated debate.

I was only referring to the interaction between the plug-in and the host. What happens inside the host before and after the plug-in has 'treated' the sound is something about which I know zip.

Greg

[LoRez]

As soon as the 64-bit OS hits retail desktops, it'll be golden. The software developers will re-compile and re-optimize for 64-bit internal precision, and then the plug-in developers will follow suit. Since we already have 64-bit processors, the OS is the key ingredient that's missing right now.

It'll be a domino effect, and I'm wagering that once that next step is taken (the OS), the rest will fall into place very quickly.

FWIW, Tracktion 2 already features 64-bit internal precision. But without VSTs outputting 64-bit, that won't matter (yet).

It is a domino effect indeed and 64-bit native host dev is already happening...and there are apparently significant gains...

http://www.cakewalk.com/x64/

[LoRez]

Note that I attributed the CS performance increase to x86-64's larger number of registers, and not the increased register width. On applications that do not require the extended dynamic range afforded by larger integers (and this covers the vast majority of applications, including games), the only kind of performance increase that you can expect from a straight 64-bit port is whatever additional performance you get from having more memory available. As I said earlier, 64-bitness, by itself, doesn't really improve performance for anything but the rare 64-bit integer application. In the case of x86-64, it's the added registers and other changes that actually account for better performance on normal apps like games.

This is speculation. There are larger gains to be had than just the additonal available memory...and the evidence is already showing itself.

[DuX]

Every bit is good, every bit is sacred...

[KrunietZ]

Interesting thread

As soon as the 64-bit OS hits retail desktops, it'll be golden.

And what would that OS be for the pc? is it the longhorn thingy we are waiting for?