Hartmann Neuron video from NAMM

[pooshka]

When it's really overpriced, yes. Especially on the internet.

if you don't mind me keep probing... why would you say 'especially on the internet'?

[Warmonger]

I'm guessing he said that because people tend to be nastier in an (effectively) anonymous internet forum than they would be in real life.

[krhen]

b) claims to be 'unique' when it may not be

What exactly does that mean? "may not be"? How will you decide if it really is or not?

Have you found another synth (soft or otherwise) that can apply a physical model (a'la Z1) to any sample set (rather than purely fixed DSP models)?

If not, then I guess 'unique' kinda fits maybe?

[Warmonger]

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug03/a ... 200cdd7167

This review was what soured the Neuron (and Hartmann) for me, and likely for many other people here.

[krhen]

This review was what soured the Neuron (and Hartmann) for me, and likely for many other people here.

That's too bad. Have you seen the number of awards the Neuron has won? No balance between reviews and awards? There're several points in that article BTW that show a lack of understanding for what Neuron is ("For example, when I chose a sine wave as my basic PCM (model 511) and twiddled its Scape (roughly speaking, excitation) parameters, I expected that nothing would happen"), (also "But when I offered Modelmaker extended samples, I expected to obtain models that I could set to sustain indefinitely. However, I was not able to create sustaining sounds in this way," - ever hear of LOOP POINTS? , as well as the fact that they had an old beta version to test ("Firstly, there seems to be a slight latency that becomes particularly noticeable when playing rapid passages using a remote keyboard") etc.

Too bad Hartmann sucks at marketing among other things - the Neuron is really a unique, very experimental synth with some real power under the hood.

But I'm still curious where the specific statement

b) claims to be 'unique' when it may not be

Came from. Did the SOS article say so? Yes, I see it. It did say "The Neuron generates its sounds using a form of resynthesis named 'Multi Component Particle Transform Synthesis' by designer Stephan Sprenger. However, resynthesis has already been with us for a long time." but again that shows a lack of understanding what Neuron is/does - mostly the fault of Herr Hartmann I think.

BTW The Axcel was an additive resynthesizer - not anywhere near the same thing...

Hartmann does really need to get their act together though.

[jens]

Came from. Did the SOS article say so? Yes, I see it. It did say "The Neuron generates its sounds using a form of resynthesis named 'Multi Component Particle Transform Synthesis' by designer Stephan Sprenger. However, resynthesis has already been with us for a long time." but again that shows a lack of understanding what Neuron is/does - mostly the fault of Herr Hartmann I think.

BTW The Axcel was an additive resynthesizer - not anywhere near the same thing...

Hartmann does really need to get their act together though.

then please enlighten us once and for all in plain words what is so special about the Neuron. And if it isn't a resynthesizer what is it then?

What can it do that Cameleon can't?

I'm really curious.

[fleetmouse]

I see no reason why you'd want this when you could get Reaktor plus one of those Alesis midi controllers with a motion sensor for less money, and have about a jillion synths for the money plus no doubt the ability to model the Hartmann.

I'm going to graft a resynth into Steampipe later tonight - probably take me about 15 minutes, if that - and I'll eat my install disk if it isn't more interesting and versatile than this thing. I'll be able to use a William S. Burroughs sample as an oscillator which is something I doubt they have included in their 300 models.

Edit: I just did it now, took me one minute and the results are fascinating. Going to need some fine tuning of the physical modeling but it's already more interesting sounding than the sounds in that video.

[krhen]

then please enlighten us once and for all in plain words what is so special about the Neuron. And if it isn't a resynthesizer what is it then?

I explained it in this thread:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... c&start=75 and later on in that thread the discussion continued.

What can it do that Cameleon can't?

The Chameleon is an additive resynthesizer - its meant to reproduce a sound using additive methods. See above for the description of what the Neuron does differently.[/url]

[Scot Solida]

Does it really matter how it achieves its sound, if that sound is no more or less spectacular than that of a synth that costs less? The fact is that the results sound like pretty run-of-the-mill resynthesis. Don't get me wrong, I think the thing sounds quite good (those demos do not do it justice), but I would suggest reading the upcoming review in CM for the full story.

[krhen]

The fact is that the results sound like pretty run-of-the-mill resynthesis.

Again, don't be fooled by demos. Its also very difficult to get a grip on it a half hour at a store demo. Its really hard to get unless you own one (which is part of Hartmann's problem IMHO You need to sit with ModelMaker and make some models before you start to get that lightbulb over your head...

but I would suggest reading the upcoming review in CM for the full story.

Luckily I own one and don't need to

[spaceman]

Does it really matter how it achieves its sound, if that sound is no more or less spectacular than that of a synth that costs less? The fact is that the results sound like pretty run-of-the-mill resynthesis. Don't get me wrong, I think the thing sounds quite good (those demos do not do it justice), but I would suggest reading the upcoming review in CM for the full story.

I don't really trust CM for any review

[Scot Solida]

The fact is that the results sound like pretty run-of-the-mill resynthesis.

Again, don't be fooled by demos. Its also very difficult to get a grip on it a half hour at a store demo. Its really hard to get unless you own one (which is part of Hartmann's problem IMHO You need to sit with ModelMaker and make some models before you start to get that lightbulb over your head...

but I would suggest reading the upcoming review in CM for the full story.

Luckily I own one and don't need to

Go back and re-read my post. It should be clear that I have the Neuron VS sitting next to me. The demos mean nothing to me.

[Scot Solida]

Does it really matter how it achieves its sound, if that sound is no more or less spectacular than that of a synth that costs less? The fact is that the results sound like pretty run-of-the-mill resynthesis. Don't get me wrong, I think the thing sounds quite good (those demos do not do it justice), but I would suggest reading the upcoming review in CM for the full story.

I don't really trust CM for any review

Too bad. I myself wrote the review, and you can bet I pulled no punches. It lays it all on the line.

[jens]

guys, I actually read Scot's post as that he's telling he checked Neuron for his upcoming CM review...

edit: you beat me to it, Scot...

[Scot Solida]

guys, I actually read Scott's post as that he's telling he checked Neuron for his upcoming CM review...

Exactly. And it is for this reason that I am not posting a long post about my experiences with the unit. I'll leave that for the review. Though I might post some sound examples later today, if I have time.