Hartmann Neuron video from NAMM

[vurt]

guys, I actually read Scot's post as that he's telling he checked Neuron for his upcoming CM review...

edit: you beat me to it, Scot...

come on jens you should know by now that reading other peoples posts before posting is not the kvr way


as for trusting reviews?surely its not about taking the word of one reviewer but collating as much as possible and of course testing yourself?
reviews arent really there to be trusted or not trusted theyre there to give you one persons insight into a product.


anyway not had anytime with it myself but with a pricetag like that its gonna have to do something special for me im afraid

[Scot Solida]

I should also point out that I am only discussing the VS version in its current state...Krhen mentions using the Modelmaker software, which, as of this time does not come with the VS version (and I have yet to get a confirmation of the rumour that it will eventually).

[jens]

guys, I actually read Scot's post as that he's telling he checked Neuron for his upcoming CM review...

edit: you beat me to it, Scot...

come on jens you should know by now that reading other peoples posts before posting is not the kvr way

for instance Scot wrote 'those demos don't do it justice' and Krhen answered 'don't judge it by this demo'

Also Scot wrote something like 'I think it sounds quite good but for the full story read the upcoming review' - how more obvious does it get?

[krhen]

Go back and re-read my post. It should be clear that I have the Neuron VS sitting next to me. The demos mean nothing to me.

Sorry then Scott - but I've gotta wonder if you really understand what you're using then... I mean, the Neuron really isn't much like any other resynthesis I've ever seen (and I've used lots of 'em). I'll look forward to the review too.

[suthnear]

I had a neuron in my studio for a month. While I agree it can do certain things easily and has a full and rich sound, I didn't encounter anything where I felt I was in virgin territory. I never really felt that a model was being created, which I could then manipulate at will as their literature suggests. A lot of the presets have very obvious loop points and this loop gets faster and faster as you play up the keyboard. There was quite a bit of munchkinisation in evidence, generally. Modifying the sphere and scape parameters (the heart of the business) created effects much like all pass filtering, frequency shifting and ring mod type effects or, quite a lot of the time, just resulted in scratchy digital noise.

I agree, though, that the comparison with cameleon is a bad one: they definitely go about their business in different ways. And if I was to choose between the neuronvs and cameleon, it'd be no contest. But reaktor is a different story entirely - there's very little I heard that I couldn't do with reaktor if I was sufficiently motivated and loads that reaktor can do that the neuron cannot.

I definitely liked it, but not at the price. I would be very interested in the plug in if it was selling for less than reaktor (and the modelmaker software was definitely included), but at twice the price, it just seems as if they're taking the piss...

p.s. I borrowed a roland v-synth shortly after I returned the neuron and thought that it came much closer to hartmann's advertising gumpf than the neuron did. When you've encoded a sample properly and you turn the time, pitch or formant knobs it really does feel like you're turning the sound inside out...

[vurt]

Go back and re-read my post. It should be clear that I have the Neuron VS sitting next to me. The demos mean nothing to me.

Sorry then Scott - but I've gotta wonder if you really understand what you're using then... .

[suthnear]

but I've gotta wonder if you really understand what you're using then

No disrespect krhen, but this seems to be a common theme among neuron owners: no one understands but us. You're like goths or rosicrucians

[Scot Solida]

Go back and re-read my post. It should be clear that I have the Neuron VS sitting next to me. The demos mean nothing to me.

Sorry then Scott - but I've gotta wonder if you really understand what you're using then...

ahem.

Yes, I understand it (I know a few things about synthesis, y'see). I simply think that a supposed "unique" approach does not necessarily mean a unique result.

[jens]

I know a few things about synthesis, y'see

Is it true? - That is news to me...

[vurt]

[I mean, the Neuron really isn't much like any other resynthesis I've ever seen (and I've used lots of 'em). I'll look forward to the review too.

you ever tried say kyma for resynthesis?
how would you compare the neuron to this for instance?

[Scot Solida]

[I mean, the Neuron really isn't much like any other resynthesis I've ever seen (and I've used lots of 'em). I'll look forward to the review too.

you ever tried say kyma for resynthesis?
how would you compare the neuron to this for instance?

I know you weren't asking me this, but the comparison would not be fair, really. First off, there is no "budget" $1000 Kyma out there. Secondly, if there was, it wouldn't lend itself to the immediacy of the Neuron. Kyma is a sound design environment that doesn't really fit in with the traditional synthesizer approach (unless you make it happen). Neuron is very much a musical instrument, and as such is playable as such from the start. The layout is pre-ordained, and the parameters are all there to see. It is very approachable and the synthesis is dead easy to use. This is not always (or even usually) the case with Kyma.

But again, this resynthesis stuff only applies to the "hardware" Neuron, since, at this point, there is no resynthesis with the VS version.

EDITED. Because without the modelmaker, there can be no comparisons between the resynthesis on Kyma and the resynthesis in Neuron. I haven't used the Modelmaker, so I can't say, and I can't base my judgement on the included models, as I have no idea what the parameters for resynthesis are. I know how to get a great result from Kyma, and I might be able to get an equally good result in Neuron with the Modelmaker, but I just can't say until I have used it.

[vurt]

to be honest scot as you know both are probably way beyond my means and capabilities


i know you are a friend scot but in this case that has no relevance,im sure anyone here will agree that to call you out on synthesis is a bit silly its like callin me out on starwars ill whoop yo ass!!!

[krhen]

No disrespect krhen, but this seems to be a common theme among neuron owners: no one understands but us. You're like goths or rosicrucians

I understand. My Neuron was one of the first batch to hit the US shores, so I've had it quite a while and it did take quite a while to really get into it and learn to work with it - its very easy to get lost in its sound design (no I disagree it is NOT intuitive synthesis UNLESS you're merely looking to tweak samples through the models), or to reach a dead-end from too much tweaking and having to go back to square-one - I'd call it 'experimental' synth programming - to get at the real power, you don't really work on a sound with the end in mind, but take raw materials and fiddle until the sound comes out - often quite unpredictable how the models will behave... sorry its really hard to understand. Its not just about trying to make a sound that sounds LIKE the model fodder you feed ModelMaker (the samples) - as you can see its very hard to even explain

Krhen mentions using the Modelmaker software, which, as of this time does not come with the VS version (and I have yet to get a confirmation of the rumour that it will eventually).

Sorry Scot, I didn't mean that to sound insulting (though it did) - just questioning why you didn't notice what I have. How long have you been using the VS? Did you not have a chance to use ModelMaker even on a hard Neuron before? You should PM me...

[Scot Solida]

to be honest scot as you know both are probably way beyond my means and capabilities


i know you are a friend scot but in this case that has no relevance,im sure anyone here will agree that to call you out on synthesis is a bit silly its like callin me out on starwars ill whoop yo ass!!!

Well, to be honest, it is even sillier to question the validity of Gordon Reid's knowledge of synthesis (he's the fellow who wrote the Sound on Sound review of the original Neuron). That guy knows synthesis inside-out.

[Scot Solida]

Sorry Scot, I didn't mean that to sound insulting (though it did) - just questioning why you didn't notice what I have. How long have you been using the VS? Did you not have a chance to use ModelMaker even on a hard Neuron before? You should PM me...

No offense was taken by the comment. As I said, I can only judge the Neuron VS. I have not used the Modelmaker and have only breifly messed with the hardware version. The thread was about the VS version, not the hardware version, so my comments really only apply to that. As I said before, if the Modelmaker is eventually provided to VS owners, it will vastly increase the usefulness of the product.