How Can We Make Rap/Hip-Hop Music Better???

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Recently I noticed that 9 of the US top 10 songs were classifiable as hip hop or hip hop / R&B. Hip hop has become such a dominant force in US pop music that most of it has all the problems of pop, which to some degree are generated by the need for a corporation to get a large return on its investment. A lot of the artists sound similar because the tracks sound similar, presumably because the same 40 people are involved in the background making beats and producing and so forth. Also, what used to be really original has, as usual, become widely copied. There was a time not long ago when I thought Dr. Dre's stuff sounded distinct from anything else going on, but not recently.

I think also the thing about hip hop and sampling resulted in a series of attempts to incorporate one particular musical genre into hip hop, like jazz, country, classic rock, etc. But given the financial issues involved in pop music, it's most productive to pay for one really identifiable sample from a previous top 40 hit. I don't hear as much creative sampling as a whole I'd say with the rise of hip hop. The way I see it, sampling pop tunes will unsurprisingly tend to make a track more popular, but pop has such limited musical content that it tends to drag down hip hop, I think.

I also liked the hip hop-jazz era, I think partly because jazz samples are inherently musical: varying dynamics and instrumentation, complex chord structures and modulations, etc.

But I'm not sure trying to look to a single musical genre for inspiration and sounds is going to be very productive anymore. Overall, I think hip hop needs more composition. The most engaging tracks to me are those in which there tends to be more going on in the track, with more interaction between the vocal and the music. A lot of tracks are probably developed by some people putting together two eight bar loops in some configuration and setting it up to be rapped over by the named artist. That's a very limited compositional process that is going to yield very limited results. An alternative example would be the Beastie Boys, who had every reason not be accepted as serious hip hop artists but who managed to break through almost entirely through good composition, IMO.

About fifteen years ago a fiiend commented to me that what he liked about rap was that the essential message was, my dick is bigger than yours. I kind of miss that sentiment in today's hip hop. I'd like to see everyone get over the "If you step on me I'm going to bust a cap in your ass" thing and get back to the basics, like "If you step on me I'm going to sleep with your woman, and she'll like it." But maybe that's just me being sentimental. :P

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I would rather see hip hop not be about a pissing contest.(My gun/wang is bigger than yours) Another thing I notice is albums like Eazy Duz it by Eazy E, when he talked about guns and sex and drugs and the like, it was almost in the same spirit as a road runner cartoon. You knew he didnt go out every day and look for people to kill. These days, artists are trying to "live their lyrics" and put a serious vibe to the music which isnt really all that entertaining. I find it ridiculous that some artists promote murder as a reasonable way to solve a problem. Another aspect is that materialism has become the new religion in hip hop. WHY?!?!?! We wonder why 3rd world countries hate us when we have nothing but idiots on tv showing off how they waste their money on champagne and rims, when they are barely feeding themselves....

Ok im off my soap box, and there is a lot of generalization in my statements above. I guess the real problem with pop/ hip hop music is they are victims of bad A&R advice, and they are catering to MTV...

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crimsontider wrote: ...
How could anyone not have a clue about "hh the
last few years" It's everwhere and has saturated every medium. ....
thats what im talking bout, the hh i listen to is not in media (or very rarely). most of the stuff i call "the best" hh is quite recent but not very popular.
erm..

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I disagree about Eazy. Yes, there was an element of humour to his music and lyrics... but whether or not he actually condoned violence or not (I say yes he did, as well as being a misogynist) he definitely knew it's what would sell records. Which means he wrote his lyrics and actively promoted that lifestyle so that he could make money for himself.

I'm not saying I don't understand. Given his background, what else WOULD he have done? So I understand completely. But that doesn't make the message any better, and in fact it makes it worse. "Well, folks might end up killing each other in the streets, but at least I'll be making money from it."

It just amazes me that it hasn't changed much since NWA's heydey... violence and drugs STILL sells rap albums, while integrity and musicality are left far far behind.

Even Arrested Development, who were fairly socially-conscious, had some pretty inane lyrics that fit right into the genre. Listen to "People Everyday" and there's that whole bit that Speech says about 'taking out' somebody (in this case with fists rather than guns, though).

There will always be an underground market for music of integrity because there will always be people of taste and intelligence. However, that market is desperately unable to support itself in the face of commercial rap and hip-hop.

On an unrelated note, I was flipping through late night TV about 2 weeks ago... and this new guy "The Game" was on Jimmy Kimmel, along with 50 Cent. What the...? This guy is a nobody and is completely unproven. He might have skills and integrity somewhere in there, but they were bought out by 50. I mean, where does it end? He's 50's punk, 50 is Eminem's punk, Eminem is Dre's punk. So he's a punk X4. Who the hell is he to get a spot on National TV before his debut album is even out?

Damn hype machines...

And the song sucked. Just another dumb-ass track about dancing at a club and getting attention, from what I could tell.

Greg
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I haven't read the thread but in answer to the question posed in the thread title - killing Jah Rule would be a good start.

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CypherOne wrote:I haven't read the thread but in answer to the question posed in the thread title - killing Jah Rule would be a good start.
If you read the rest of the thread, you would know how wonderfully ironic that statement is. ;)

Greg
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Rap and Rnb songs seem to be designed so they are easily transfered to mobile ring tones.. Notice how they rely on simplistic, catchy bleepy hooks?
listen to my tunes here:
http://soundcloud.com/damien-chamizo

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they just have to export the .mid file from their MPCs into the phone :lol:

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Lunch Money wrote:I disagree about Eazy. Yes, there was an element of humour to his music and lyrics... but whether or not he actually condoned violence or not (I say yes he did, as well as being a misogynist) he definitely knew it's what would sell records. Which means he wrote his lyrics and actively promoted that lifestyle so that he could make money for himself.

I'm not saying I don't understand. Given his background, what else WOULD he have done? So I understand completely. But that doesn't make the message any better, and in fact it makes it worse. "Well, folks might end up killing each other in the streets, but at least I'll be making money from it."

It just amazes me that it hasn't changed much since NWA's heydey... violence and drugs STILL sells rap albums, while integrity and musicality are left far far behind.

Even Arrested Development, who were fairly socially-conscious, had some pretty inane lyrics that fit right into the genre. Listen to "People Everyday" and there's that whole bit that Speech says about 'taking out' somebody (in this case with fists rather than guns, though).

There will always be an underground market for music of integrity because there will always be people of taste and intelligence. However, that market is desperately unable to support itself in the face of commercial rap and hip-hop.

On an unrelated note, I was flipping through late night TV about 2 weeks ago... and this new guy "The Game" was on Jimmy Kimmel, along with 50 Cent. What the...? This guy is a nobody and is completely unproven. He might have skills and integrity somewhere in there, but they were bought out by 50. I mean, where does it end? He's 50's punk, 50 is Eminem's punk, Eminem is Dre's punk. So he's a punk X4. Who the hell is he to get a spot on National TV before his debut album is even out?

Damn hype machines...

And the song sucked. Just another dumb-ass track about dancing at a club and getting attention, from what I could tell.

Greg
Yeah I saw the "Game" video this morning so uninspiring. I read This interview of the Game, and music is just a "branch on a tree" for him. HE could give 1/2 a shit about it. He says he is a biznessman 1st and foremost. Wow, some how the buying public doesnt even want music made by musicians. They are buying solely on the basis of image.

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I ended up doing tracks and recording rappers for several years. When I talked to them about their words and subjects, they said they had to rap about that. I would rather they rap about what they were actually going thru. These were hard working guys for the most part. They had jobs and families. Some were vets. Hey, they needed money to pay for studio time! I would rather they rap about working and raising a family (something they were doing)than what they rapped about. These guys didn't even use the "language" until the mic came on! Now they knew the "street" but they live there.

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crimsontider wrote:
xoxos wrote: mahir cagri kick ass. she should find him.
ROFLMO!
Accordian player from hell :help:
he plays many many instruments! you can stay his home :p

depressing thread.. why do so many civilised people have so little idea of the social control implicated in commercially broadcast music. you're still on that little boy rockstar dream, keeping you buying records and instruments, you might "make it.." :lol: yeah, sure, "it's all really honest and just luck and skill" :lol:

i mean.. don't you get why all these "punks have punks" as you put it? they're telling the kids how the shit is.. you're f**ked unless you're in the pocket.

gotta get a good subconcious dose of hopelessness in them young-like.

you know? why is commercialism the "religion" of "rap" (the commercial entity!) ?? d'ya think just maybe... ??? :lol:

oh no, because you could never believe how badly culture is screwed. then it would all be over for you... it could get ugly if you don't keep te machine running..

hahahahahaha
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

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Lunch Money wrote:On an unrelated note, I was flipping through late night TV about 2 weeks ago... and this new guy "The Game" was on Jimmy Kimmel, along with 50 Cent. What the...? This guy is a nobody and is completely unproven. He might have skills and integrity somewhere in there, but they were bought out by 50. I mean, where does it end? He's 50's punk, 50 is Eminem's punk, Eminem is Dre's punk. So he's a punk X4. Who the hell is he to get a spot on National TV before his debut album is even out?
You forgot the first rule of hip-hop. Get famous, make your friends famous, guest star on each other's records to keep yourselves famous.

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the problem with rap/hiphop is very similar to what happened with 'country' music in the USA: what used to be interesting has become a pale shadow of itself. in other words it's not 'real' anymore. Most of the clowns doing hiphop are about as 'street' as Shania Twain is 'country'. most hiphoppers and rappers are actually middle class kids who hang out on the street by choice, not because the have to. they don't live on the street, they hang out then go home to their nice safe middle class homes. even a legit group like Public Enemy met in college! Many country musicians are failed rock'n'rollers who found it much easier to succeed in country since the bar is so much lower. Same with many hiphoppers: they couldn't cut it singing and playing instruments.
There are some very talented people out there doing HH, but few get on the radio 'cos they're not commercial enuff-as many people here have pointed out. but saying f*ck 50 times(or even once) in a song takes no talent at all...
for reference: i'm a former speed freak who has slept in alleys, stolen from stores, people, and trucks, been arrested, etc...so maybe i have a little perspective, maybe not. ain't it great being reformed? :roll: peace

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damn! meant to edit that last post! oh, well... flame on!

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I don't "get" the punk thing, or knowing famous people to get ahead?

Of course I 'get' it... it's not complicated.

Doesn't mean I have any respect for it. :D

Greg
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