SS2 - building real instrument patches from elements

[Caleb]

Well there's an idea.
Until I read a reply from Squids in another thread, I never thought of trying to build a "real instrument" patch from elements. DUH I guess.

Anyway - I thought given there isn't an actual clarinet preset that I'd try to build a clarinet combi using elements.

It didn't really go that well I'm afraid.
But it's probably good to set in motion a thread on discussing this kind of thing. Maybe we can all experiment and get a better understanding of SS2 sound building functionality.

Anyway - here's my ummmm pseudo clarinet patch.

Clarinet

I used legato on the main sound patches and also the breath patch but I've left the key pad sounds on poly.

I'm guessing the patch will work alot better sequences then performed on a keyboard controller.

Anyway - feel free to criticise the hell out of it and maybe we can improve on this "interesting" attempt.

Caleb

[Kim Lajoie]

A couple of things you can do to make it a bit more realistic:

Part one:
Set LFO2 to about 6Hz, and send a bit to level and a tiny bit to pitch. Most clarinettists play with a slight tremelo.
Change legato to mono (real clarinets can't easily slide between notes).

Part four:
Replace the momentatry "attack" wind with a sustained wind noise (they're just above in the browser). Saxwind Sus06 worked well for me.


It's an interesting approach, this, because you have to really think about the components that make up a sound.


Forever,




Kim.

[Caleb]

Yeah I agree. It's different trying to patch something together from elements like this.

I'll have a go with your suggestions and see if I get a better result.

Caleb

EDIT: I have re-uploaded the patch and made some changes. (Link in my first post)

I did keep the legato though because I don't like how the instrument sounds with Mono - too percussive or something. I did put the glide down on 1 ms though.

I think this is sounding a bit better.
Let me know what you think.

Caleb

[Kim Lajoie]

EDIT: I have re-uploaded the patch and made some changes. (Link in my first post)

I think this is sounding a bit better.
Let me know what you think.

Caleb

It's getting better. I've been playing it a bit, and I've got some more ideas:

I still prefer the mono over legato. I think legato makes it sound too "keyboardy". It also causes some weird changes in timbre when playing lines that cross over sample split points.

I like to have the key noise louder too (volume about 50), to sound more like it's close-mic'd, or more intimate. This could be personal taste though - most of my experience with "real" clarinettists has been in recording or rehearsal situations, where I've been exposed to a more intimate sound.

I've muted the clarinet ensemble element (part 2), because it's adding a weird harmonic that making the combi sound a little less realistic.


To set the modwheel to add some more expression to part one, do this:
1) Set the LFO1 depth to zero (so we don't get any crazy pitch or level swoops)
2) Set the third macro knob (cutoff) to 100
3) Assign MIDI CC1 (modwheel) to filter cutoff (not the macro).

For greater expression range, set the third macro knob (cutoff) to 80 (instead of 100).

With a bit of practice, this will allow you to play with a lot more expression, because you can do swells and inter-note dynamics that keyboard instruments aren't very good at (but wind instruments are).

Forever,




Kim.

[Caleb]

Hey they're interesting ideas.

I will have to learn these controls a bit better though. As I've only just started with this engine, I'm having trouble with some of the modulation options and I haven't even looked at the macro yet.

I kind of agree with turning the second part off. I was trying to get a richer sound by adding the two. But it probably wasn't the best idea.

I might try to learn this engine a bit better before I go any further.

As for the legato - I'll see what it's like with the legato off again, but I will keep legato on the wind noise. If you're playing a run of notes you're not going to want to hear the attack noise on this sound each time.

Caleb

[Squids]

If I get a good moment I will make a clarinet combi that can show some of the things you can do building "real" instruments in Sonik Synth 2.

[pheeleep]

Jeez, any chance you could post the clarinet combi you made? I'll download this one when I get home tonight.. thanks caleb

[Caleb]

If I get a good moment I will make a clarinet combi that can show some of the things you can do building "real" instruments in Sonik Synth 2.

Cool Squids. This is an interesting exercise I think.
It's using the whole elements concept in a way I hadn't actually thought of.

It's a good way to start learning some of the tricks of the ST2 engine too which I'm really not familiar with yet.

Caleb

[Kim Lajoie]

Jeez, any chance you could post the clarinet combi you made? I'll download this one when I get home tonight.. thanks caleb

I didn't make a clarinet combi. I just used Caleb's and made the modifications that I've posted in this thread. Nothing complex.

I hope Squids does a clarinet combi, show us how it's done.

Forever,




Kim.

[pheeleep]

Cool, no worries. I thought maybe you had saved a version with all the tweaks I'm just being lazy

[Mr. Tunes]

cool little thread. i'll try to jump in soon.

i was thinking of another exercise for everyone to get some homework this week. it's for all you physics junkies out there:

take an instrument, throw a FM or AM Ring mod on there. now try to figure out how to set your mod wheel so that it will fluctuate the ring mod frequency between two note pitches that you decide(using the min and max values in the midi control window). how will you figure out what midi cc value(between 0-127), will dictate what note pitch you will get(ie A, C, D etc).

is this possible to do?

your assignment is due this week, and dont tell me the dog ate your homework

[Kim Lajoie]

take an instrument, throw a FM or AM Ring mod on there. now try to figure out how to set your mod wheel so that it will fluctuate the ring mod frequency between two note pitches that you decide(using the min and max values in the midi control window). how will you figure out what midi cc value(between 0-127), will dictate what note pitch you will get(ie A, C, D etc).

I've done this sort of thing before, setting the AM frequency such that the resulting tone makes some sort of harmonic sense. It's handy to hold CTRL while adjusting the knob, so you have extra precision.

Assigning the modwheel to move between two such frequencies is a cool extension of that idea. To set the correct frequencies would be mainly a matter of tuning it by ear (the frequency readout isn't always accurate enough to do the maths ). There might be an issue with the MIDI data not having enough resolution to hit the exact correct frequency though.

Of course, tuning the AM frequency only works if you're playing one note (or two, if they have a simple harmonic relationship). Once you start playing interesting basslines or melodies, things start getting atonal very fast. Let's not even discuss chords.

Forever,




Kim.

[Mr. Tunes]

yeah holding down control is the only way to zero your ring mod in on the right freq.

but is there a way to readout what midi value you have set that to so you can punch that in the midi controller min/max window? kind of like the old sampletank you could double click or something and it would display midi data. otherwise known as Meaty Data!

[Kim Lajoie]

kind of like the old sampletank you could double click or something and it would display midi data.

In ST1, clicking on the value readout under the knob changed the display to show the MIDI CC number (not the CC value).

Forever,




Kim.

[asseca]

Jeez,

In ST1, clicking on the value it would show the MIDI CC number AND CC value, e.g. "Mid Gain" shows "cc69:64".

This was a very nice feature I miss a lot in ST2...