Guitars vs. voices

[Pouckypluysch]

I read quite a few guidelines on how to mix. I heard experienced engineers talk about it. They all say it's essential that when you mix, make sure no track gets in the way of the frequencies of another track.

I think I get most of the idea, but not all of it. In a mix, the guitar track almost always hangs around in the same frequencies as the vocals, for instance. When I seperate them, one of thew two - or both - doesn't sound good.

I tend to conclude that the idea is not to remove anything when frequencies collide, but to reduce those in one of the parts.

I could put a lot of nuances in this question, but I think you'll see what kind of responses I'm after...

I'm very curious how you folks deal with this. I just recorded a band with a guitarst, so it's quite new to me. Before, I mixed the music I made with vsti's and a singer. I just chose sounds with no conflicting frequencies. It doesn't really work that way with a band...

[Rock Hardbuns]

The standard solution in with rock guitars is to record two or more channels and have them panned hard left right. This frees up the center space for vocals and allows you to have a heavy, even massive guitar sound and still have alot of room for vocals.

Another thing to think about is that the blurry effect doesnt arise if the two instruments are in certain types of rythmical or tonal alignment. Well, they still sort of blend, but instead of the blurry mix effect you can get them to sound like one instrument, or as a single part of the mix. Tricky to do with vocals, but common with drum+bass, or e-piano+guitar.

[C00kie]

In a mix, the guitar track almost always hangs around in the same frequencies as the vocals, for instance. When I seperate them, one of thew two - or both - doesn't sound good.

In my experience guitars are fighting each other, not the vocals. Unless the vocals also sound distorted through a valve amp ofcourse


I tend to conclude you have not done it properly yet. And it is hard, so don't give up yet! Sometimes you only need to remove a bit of mid-high freqs in one track to have it seperated from another track. Play with the EQ's a lot until you've found the sweet spot. Or cheat and use SpaceBoy.

Pukeweed: hard-panning a double guitars part will not solve anything. Listen to it in mono and it has become worse.

[susiwong]

More often than not the sounds that work well in a mix don't sound so great on their own.
I tend to use (high quality - UAD Cambridge) LP- and HP-filters on almost anything to remove the frequencies on individual channels that are hidden in the mix anyway.
Then I don't rely on soloing so much, I tend to adjust the sounds in context. Soloing is more to locate noise or other more technical issues for me.
Don't be afraid to use guitar tones that sound strange or thin on their own if they blend well in the mix.
Creative use of compression is vital, too - you want to put the vocals massively up front most of the time and maybe reduce the dynamic range and/or attack of the backing instruments so they interfere less with the vocals and are still "there".
UAD again is the boss here, good ones also come from Voxengo, Kjaerhus and Digitalfishphones.
Stereo panning, obviously.
Don't use too many stereo sounds, rather try to place different mono sounds creatively in the stereo field.
Finally, the most often overlooked problem : The arrangement. Well played and arranged guitars tend to not get in the way of vocals anyway - there is even the musical element that's called "pause". Hard to play for the individual musician, very effective nevertheless.
Of course thee's more, but these are some of the basics.
Hope that helps,
susiwong

[Marc JX8P]

And always remember - if it sounds ok, it is ok. No matter what experienced sound engineers say!

Anyway, some things I've picked up from magazines, web pages and experimentation:

Trying to get seperate spaces of frequencies can help put more air in a mix, make it easier to differentiate all instruments. I've started experimenting with that myself lately in my mixes and I find that the trick of limiting an instrument to its most effective range is very useful in this respect. When I find an instrument sounding a bit mushy, or obstructing others, I try to put an EQ on it that filters frequencies lower than and above its normal range (you can find that by adjusting the settings while listening). If you do so while playing all the tracks you can often find that you can create a lot of space beneath and above the instrument without it changing the character it needs in the mix.

Also, sometimes reducing reverb can help too. I've heard for example that putting a short delay on guitars can work very well in a mix because it gives the athmosphere but not the mushiness of a reverb.

[ezeeboogie]

One word... Spaceboy.

[vurt]

i have 6 guitars and one voice
i reckon the guitars would win by sheer weight of numbers