KVR Audio

Gix · Post by **Gix** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:24 pm

Hi,
does anyone know if there exists something like a VSTi to WDM device wrapper for Windows?
It should allow any VST MIDI instrument to be set as output of any media player.
If you ask me about the necesity of this wrapper I can tell you one:
As I know, Sonar can not echo sysex data to DXi or VSTi instruments. Instead, it echoes sysex data only to "real" MIDI output ports. That's why, the Yamaha S-YXG50 VSTi cannot be used with Sonar. But with this kind of wrapper it should work.
Thanks

kovacs · Post by **kovacs** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:33 pm

Is there any point in posting this more than once?

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:38 pm

VST's do not need sysex midi messages. I'll tell you why.

Normally sysex (SYStem EXclusive, model specific) messages are used to control specific parameters of a synth that cannot be controlled with normal CC messages (or left outside normal CC's on purpose by the manufacturer.)

The VST specifications allow virtually every parameter to be controlled by the host, without the need to have midi messages. I think you can translate the messages to other info the VST can deal with.

I understand a host filters out sysex messages to be sent to a VST instrument. Maybe another apart from Sonar does not.

Maybe if you put the VST version of the Yamaha S-YXG50 in a host that can send midi messages to it, and use something like MidiYoke...

Gix · Post by **Gix** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:11 pm

If I send a program change message from SONAR, S-YXG VST is not reacting in any way.
Besides sysex messages, how can I send a program change instruction to it?
If someone can make it work properly please let me know.
I think it's not working in energyXT also.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:21 pm

Ummm, is that thing actually a VSTi plugin at all? Cos nothing Ive seen actually indicates it is. In which case, that is why it cant be be used with Sonar; its not a plugin, just a standalone softsynth.

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:33 pm

Just Googled that thingy and felt like a tourist walking in Amsterdam!

Pssst, you! Hasjies? wanna have crack? Get a VSt, or virus, or more specific HIV?

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:45 pm

haha I noticed that too

Gix · Post by **Gix** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:03 am

If someone wants to give a try, look for the description in the KVR VST list for S-YXG50. You'll have to download Yamaha's SOL2 trial. You can install it but it's Japanese, or you can extract the whole kit and find only the S-YXG50 sub-kit and install the last one.
Thanks

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:37 am

Gix wrote:In SOL2 it's working. I don't know how it is doing, but in any other VST Host I cannot change patches or other elementary commands are not recognized.

There's your answer... Its designed by Yamaha for their own sequecer, so you're already lucky you don't get a BSOD when trying to run it in other hosts

Stick to Sol (and pay the price) or stop whining. Get a GM soundfont and SFZ for free, and live happily ever after...

useruseruser · Post by **useruseruser** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:59 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:Ummm, is that thing actually a VSTi plugin at all? Cos nothing Ive seen actually indicates it is. In which case, that is why it cant be be used with Sonar; its not a plugin, just a standalone softsynth.

Wrong.

It is actually also available as VST plugin (and can be purchased from Yamaha).

Well, this plugin infact "understands" SysEx. System mode messages and effect editing (Variation effect).

The problem is (as I described in the last thread, which was identical tho this one), that actually NO host application I know from (except the good old Cubase VST 5) supports SysEx for VST. But Cubase 5 had a bug, which didn't support messages shorter than 16 bytes...

This is indeed generally a bad situation, because it limits the creation of "emulations" and extended MIDI functionality in VST very much.

You have to know: You can actually transmit binary data (of any kind) to a synthesizer via SysEx!!!

For instance: most parameters of the XG effects are merely switchable via SysEx. This particulary plugin has no editing interface, because it acts actually as a simple (but very powerful) GM midi module.

Thereby it would be really only a snap for host developers to implement SysEx for VST.

Shame on host developers! They continue to kick good old professional methods into arse (because the new digital methods are soooo muuuuch better...). A warm shit is better...

The only way is to extend the VST and DX specifications to finally enable SysEx forwarding to VST instruments. Actually this will be filtered out for questionable reasons.

This is actually very easy to solve and I personally contacted Steinberg several times to do it finally.

But their answer was always the same: "Nobody asked this untill now. So we didn't implement it".

... thats very strange, because they actually simply removed SysEx support after discontinuing the Cubase VST serie.

Gix · Post by **Gix** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:36 pm

Dear jackle&hyde,
thanks for your detailed answer.
I think the question now is: SOL2 is a VST host that can send sysex messages to VST instruments OR is doing other tricks with S-YXG50 to make it work properly?
Does anyone know?

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:54 pm

how come I have never heard of this S-YXG50? It seems like its old and has a small sampleset. There is much much better out there, and some of it is also free...

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:00 pm

jackle&hyde quoth

Wrong.

What exactly is wrong? I asked a question.

Gix · Post by **Gix** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:09 pm

@S_A_P: yes, it's old but I also have lots of XG MIDI files...
Do you know another XG compatible softsynth?

Gix · Post by **Gix** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:23 pm

The solution was to use SAVIHost and Maple Virtual MIDI Cable.
Thanks for all who helped...

VST instrument to WDM device wrapper