Sample CDs dev & copyrights, things I don't undertsand..

[Markleford]

[...] Or, say, Kawai and their drum machines or additive synths... Kawai are barely in this area of the business anymore and I imagine that IF they even knew of my activities, they would be similarly appreciative of my appraisal of their contribution to the greater musical environment which we now enjoy. [...]

A vendor-specific anecdote here...

I have exchanged email with the tech manager for Kawai US about my working towards an expanded K1 emulation, and he expressed similar disappointment that Kawai Japan seems content to let their synth legacy die in lieu of concentrating on digital pianos. That's one reason why they released their entire commercial patch library for free.

In a tacit, entirely non-legal manner, I was given the green-light: he certainly won't blow the whistle on me, and he doesn't think the Japanese will even notice. Not that it gives me protection if they do and decide to do something about it.

- m

[Mr. Tunes]

Quite true, I have a Magix sample CD with drum loops in it in which you can clearly hear sound bites of the "When The Levee Breaks" by Led Zeppelin!

that drum break is pretty easy to redo yourself. there is a drum kit in sonik synth2 that takes a normal acoustic kit and runs it through a crapload of limiting and stuff. it sounds just like bonham

[Huggie]

Mr Tunes is right. Any famous break can be recreated using the right gear, a skilled session drummer and a little hard work! The same goes with samples from famous Drum Machines. If you have the skills and the technology anything is possible.

[tee boy]

Thats very true. But the question is, are you really going to pay out all that cash and time just for a crunchy old break? If you were planning a release like the 'Planet of the Breaks' CD's, then the answer is definately yes. But if you only want a couple of vinyl kicks and snare, then this ofcourse is out of the question.

Also, its worth noting that those Sonik Synth samples are just that - samples. If you want a certain break, might as well bite the bullet and use it rather than trying to reproduce it with equally prohibited material. Ofcourse, Im talking here with regard to producing sample CD's.

btw, can you really get a convincing reproduction of that Led break using Sonki Synth? That I'd be interested to here!

[herodotus]

.

btw, can you really get a convincing reproduction of that Led break using Sonki Synth? That I'd be interested to here!

Me, too! I must admit to being rather skeptical...

[SampleScience]

Quite true, I have a Magix sample CD with drum loops in it in which you can clearly hear sound bites of the "When The Levee Breaks" by Led Zeppelin!

that drum break is pretty easy to redo yourself. there is a drum kit in sonik synth2 that takes a normal acoustic kit and runs it through a crapload of limiting and stuff. it sounds just like bonham

No it's the When The Levee Breaks because it's chop & mixed with electronic percussions, it's cheaply made & the loops are no good. At least, if you have the skills to re-create a breakbeat just re-create it with a better fidelity, I'll post samples to show you when I'll have time.

[themixtape]

15-year old thread. But very interesting.

I have bought several e-lab / Equipped Music libraries in the last 20 years.

I guarantee a handful of their sample loops (more than a handful) are not cleared. At all. Case in point, one of their libraries sampled Ben E. King's "Spanish Harlem", blatantly. It was an entire music loop of that famous melodic, catchy thing that kicks off the song. It was slowed down and pitched-down, but completely obvious.



e-lab vanished over time, and became Equipped Music, which I think is now gone, too. I wonder why.

But holy crap, did they make a ton of money from those early libraries (Abstract Hip-Hop, Smoker's Delight, the Vinylistics series, etc).

Interested in hearing fresh perspectives on this, 15 years later.

I should also note that Cymatics (as big as they are) started sampling all sorts of stuff they did not have clearance for. They became popular through Computer Music Magazine, for whom they provided countless sample loops every issue (2000-2010, basically). Now, their stuff is supposedly royalty-free and copyright-free, but they've gone on record saying "everyone's gotta start somewhere"... none of their early loops were cleared, like none of them.

Let's hear some new thoughts!

[BertKoor]

did they make a ton of money

They probably made some bucks, but I doubt it were tons. Got costs everywhere in the chain.

Let's hear some new thoughts!

Naah, laws and such have not changed. The only thing "new" is that CDs are on recline since internet bandwidth is practically free. Most new computers don't even have a slot anymore to slide CDs in to.

[SampleScience]

e-lab vanished over time, and became Equipped Music, which I think is now gone, too. I wonder why.

If I remember well they got sued over licensing sounds they didn't have the rights to Roland. I could be wrong though, it was a long time ago...

[DrGonzo]

I have exchanged email with the tech manager for Kawai US about my working towards an expanded K1 emulation, and he expressed similar disappointment that Kawai Japan seems content to let their synth legacy die in lieu of concentrating on digital pianos. That's one reason why they released their entire commercial patch library for free.

In a tacit, entirely non-legal manner, I was given the green-light: he certainly won't blow the whistle on me, and he doesn't think the Japanese will even notice. Not that it gives me protection if they do and decide to do something about it.

Old thread indeed

I tried to get in touch with Kawai regarding this matter, to get permission to sample the XD5, but no one replies to my requests unfortunately.

What did you mean by that Kawai have released their patch library for free?

/C

[Markleford]

What did you mean by that Kawai have released their patch library for free?

Wow, 15 year old thread-necromancy!

Back in the day, Kawai sold memory cards for the K1 with more patches and multis. Eventually those went out of production with the K1 itself, so they made the data available as sysex files for free on their support site.

- m

[GRUMP]

OK, I'm an aspiring sample CD develloper, I've already post some sounds I have made (http://samplingart.250free.com/samples.html), but when I see other devellopers like AMG or e-Lab sellings CDs with questionnable contents I'm asking myself what are the real rules when it comes to selling samples.

Here's some examples of products I doubt are 100% legit & the reasons why:

e-Lab - the Vinylistics Series



I'm sure e-Lab put a lot of work in these volumes but if you have downloaded the free Vinylistics samples that we're available on the e-Lab website you have probably recognise the "Skull Snaps" break there. And here's the vynilistic mp3 demo where you can clearly hear the "When The Levee Breaks" by Led Zeppelin:

http://demo.bigfishaudio.net/demo/vn1.mp3

Did they bought the rights for these two breaks?

Electronisounds - Ambient Dreams


http://www.electronisounds.com/AmbientDreams.html

Download the demo pack & hear an Akai XE8 sample. I know it short, but I thought it was illegal to sell sounds from dum machines & sound modules. You can also recognise some other drum machine samples on other Electronisounds sample CDs. Maybe he was the original drummer for these drum machines, who knows? But he's not alone, ModernBeats.com & Dangerous Bear Underground are doing the same.

AMG - Norman Cook - Skip To My Loops



Norman Cook is a DJ & if you read interviews about him you will know that he samples old vynils drum loops, cut them, re-arrange the slices in his sampler & passes the sound trought FXs. Even on the Amg websites you can read from a review: "...some loops are created from cup-ups of old favourites. Others are obviously programmed. There are several old pals..."

Check for yourself: http://www.amguk.co.uk/cds/skiptomyloopsrev.html

AMG - Coldcut's Kleptomania!



From the AMG website: "...Instead of presenting boring multi-sample sets, this release featured sounds carefully culled from a massive and well-researched record collection, lovingly assembled over a period of years. With old-school jazz and soul drum-loops, voice hits, classic stabs and breaks, here was an early and vital insight into the raw material of the dance producer."

Check for yourself: http://www.amguk.co.uk/cds/coldcutkleprev.html

I thought it was illegal to sell samples from records! And with over 1,000 samples on this disc, I doubt they are all clear & safe to use unless they have recorded & synthetize most of the sounds from scratch., which I doubt.

Dangerous Bear Underground - The Hollow Sun Classic Instruments Reason reFill



This collection contains samples from classic drum machines, again, I thought it was illegal to sell samples from drum machines & sound modules. Hollow Sun themself will sell these samples but did they have the authorisations from Roland, Akai & Linn? It could be.

As an aspiring sample cd producer I feel that this is unfair, it would be a lot more easier for me to just samples the sample based instruments & records I have than getting into all the trouble & work of synthetising my own sound from scratch!

Re-editing, slicing & passing an already existed drum loop trough a bunch of effects is a lot easier than record your own stuff or synthetising your own percussions from scratch.

Why these companies can get away with it without getting into any trouble with copyrights laws & their owners?

Look forwards and figure out your personal Options and Restrictions. You'll never find out about those Products and Backgrounds. Some People even sell Crack, some Countries don't Care, some of us have Connections and others sell on Command.

All that is not your Business. Focus on your own Project.

... and yes - some People even sell Crack and even some well known devs/SD frequently violate CR as lately seen in a Wavetable of a Well known Synth (...).

[SampleScience]

Look forwards and figure out your personal Options and Restrictions. You'll never find out about those Products and Backgrounds. Some People even sell Crack, some Countries don't Care, some of us have Connections and others sell on Command.

All that is not your Business. Focus on your own Project.

... and yes - some People even sell Crack and even some well known devs/SD frequently violate CR as lately seen in a Wavetable of a Well known Synth (...).

Man, are you aware that this is a 15 years old thread? I'm now a full-time sample developer and have been for the last 6 years.

Who is the well-known dev who violate in a well-known wavetable synth?

[enroe]

Man, are you aware that this is a 15 years old thread? I'm now a full-time sample developer and have been for the last 6 years.

Who is the well-known dev who violate in a well-known wavetable synth?

Yeah, yeah: Also now - after 15 years - you spell "developer" correctly
with only one "l"!

[GRUMP]

Look forwards and figure out your personal Options and Restrictions. You'll never find out about those Products and Backgrounds. Some People even sell Crack, some Countries don't Care, some of us have Connections and others sell on Command.

All that is not your Business. Focus on your own Project.

... and yes - some People even sell Crack and even some well known devs/SD frequently violate CR as lately seen in a Wavetable of a Well known Synth (...).

Man, are you aware that this is a 15 years old thread? I'm now a full-time sample developer and have been for the last 6 years.

Who is the well-known dev who violate in a well-known wavetable synth?

Uh... I never Look at Dates :/ but anyway - it was up so you shouldn't wonder about Replies...

I didn't Look at the Name either... And I have in deed heard from you.

But why so grumpy, unfriendly? "Man, are you aware" ... I mean - are you aware that I was very polite giving a motivating Reply on a naive Question?