Live versus electronic drums.

[herodotus]

So I have been wondering...Why do people use sampled drum hits and midi as opposed to live drum loops/tracks?

I'm not being a smart-ass (at least not intentionally) I really want to know perceived advantages/ disadvantages.

Do people use samples and samplers because they are easier to use than live drums? Is it simply because people want drums but don't play them? Because they live in an apartment and can't record real drums?

Or is it a variety thing: twenty snare sounds in one track, etc.,etc.?

Or do people prefer that totally controlled electronic sound?

Just interested in knowing people's opinions.

[foosnark]

Do people use samples and samplers because they are easier to use than live drums?

Because they live in an apartment and can't record real drums?

Or is it a variety thing: twenty snare sounds in one track, etc.,etc.?

Or do people prefer that totally controlled electronic sound?

All of the above.

I play hand percussion but I don't record it mostly for lack of mic and good acoustic space. Psychologically it's also nice for me to keep that separate; turning off the computer and playing ashiko for a while often gives me a creative kick, or just a way to relax.

I haven't bothered to learn to play a drum kit; they are bulky, loud, expensive, limited, and tricky to record properly. I have much respect for good drummers and good engineers though.

Also it's a style thing; I use lo-fi, glitchy, heavy and/or processed drums (or non-drum percussive sounds) as often as I use natural-sounding drums anyway.

[herodotus]

I haven't bothered to learn to play a drum kit; they are bulky, loud, expensive, limited, and tricky to record properly. I have much respect for good drummers and good engineers though.

On that note, please check out some loops I have recorded recently: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73600

We have been trying to get a decent sound for a long time now... I think we might be getting there.

I play hand percussion but I don't record it mostly for lack of mic and good acoustic space. Psychologically it's also nice for me to keep that separate; turning off the computer and playing ashiko for a while often gives me a creative kick, or just a way to relax.

Thats funny, for me its the other way around: doing computer music acts as a pleasant (and absorbing) break from the bulky, loud, limitations of playing in bands.

[Omniphonix]

My partner handles all the percussion in our tracks. He was a rock drummer for several years. He purchased the Yamaha DTXTREME IIS electronic drum kit a short while ago. This allows us to MIDI control a drum module like Battery with a real drum set and get more realistic sequences into Cubase. All the while, still having the sonic freedom of using drum samples that could be way beyond the realm of real percussion instruments. I think a fusion of both worlds is really the way to go (plus rubber pads are alot quieter than acoustic drums which is better for the neighbors).

[donkey tugger]

Well, meself, I do play, but not for ages, having had the restrictions you pointed out (f**king neighbours etc), but I do like the control programming gives me; if I want to alter a whole section/alter the feel etc, it's easily done. Since me stuff is more about songs and dynamics than widdle too, I can get away with it a bit more so I'm not that arsed.

P.S. Those loops are coolio, bit too much 'k-v-r hi-hat disease' for me, but hey, thats what eq is for!

[BONES]

Setting up drum-kits totally sucks and provides no real advantage beyond the interest of watching a drummer on stage. i.e. It is way too much effort for way too little return. SiK plays an OctaPad on stage but it triggers hits from ORION. I programme everything for recording because it's a one-shot process.

[donkey tugger]

Setting up drum-kits totally sucks and provides no real advantage beyond the interest of watching a drummer on stage. i.e. It is way too much effort for way too little return. SiK plays an OctaPad

I'll wager he's not exactly bonham is he though?

[Sascha Franck]

One simple reason (and most likely true for most of us here):
No way to practise and record the f**kers at our home studios.
Think about it, almost anything else (apart from an elephant trumpet section perhaps) can be recorded easily on a rather low budget. With decent results that is.
To get anything close to that quality out of a real drumset you'd need 5 mics at least, a recording booth and enough space for the thing.

[herodotus]

My partner handles all the percussion in our tracks. He was a rock drummer for several years. He purchased the Yamaha DTXTREME IIS electronic drum kit a short while ago. This allows us to MIDI control a drum module like Battery with a real drum set and get more realistic sequences into Cubase. All the while, still having the sonic freedom of using drum samples that could be way beyond the realm of real percussion instruments. I think a fusion of both worlds is really the way to go (plus rubber pads are alot quieter than acoustic drums which is better for the neighbors).

I'd be interested in hearing your stuff, that sounds like a real neat setup you have going there. I do all of my midi writing with a notation editor so I must admit I am jealous of your drummer.

But I am really on the fence here. I don't want to be a neo-primitive or anything, but I have never heard electronic drums that sounded real. Cool, certainly. But REAL? Maybe, like guitar, the gestalt is just too much for modelling to simulate, (yet).Then again, perhaps I am just ignorant. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

[Panda]

If i want an electronic sound, i program.
If i want it to sound more human, well, i program too, but i'm planning to start recording drums instead because i do think it's no use trying to imitate a real drummer with a computer...

I've never tried triggering electronic samples with one of those midi drums, dunno if that's any good...

So i guess my answer would be: depends on what you want, depends on what you can do in your situation (i just met a drummer so that opens some possibilities for recording, if i could get my hands on a decent recording setup, that is), but anyway, if you program it'll sound programmed (wow ).

[herodotus]

Setting up drum-kits totally sucks and provides no real advantage beyond the interest of watching a drummer on stage. i.e. It is way too much effort for way too little return.

So I am obsolete, then?

[donkey tugger]

But I am really on the fence here. I don't want to be a neo-primitive or anything, but I have never heard electronic drums that sounded real. Cool, certainly. But REAL? Maybe, like guitar, the gestalt is just too much for modelling to simulate, (yet).Then again, perhaps I am just ignorant. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

but, like I alluded to earlier, depends what the focus of yer music is. If you're going for some ultra realism fusion stylee stuff then perhaps not (though some k-v-r jaath people's drums- griels, topaz etc - have been very convincing in that idiom). If you're going for a pop/rock stylee where no bugger should really be paying too much attention to the drums unless they're an anorak (then in which case they probably woudn't like yer stuff anyway... ), then a reasonable facscimile will do fine.

[Omniphonix]

My partner handles all the percussion in our tracks. He was a rock drummer for several years. He purchased the Yamaha DTXTREME IIS electronic drum kit a short while ago. This allows us to MIDI control a drum module like Battery with a real drum set and get more realistic sequences into Cubase. All the while, still having the sonic freedom of using drum samples that could be way beyond the realm of real percussion instruments. I think a fusion of both worlds is really the way to go (plus rubber pads are alot quieter than acoustic drums which is better for the neighbors).

I'd be interested in hearing your stuff, that sounds like a real neat setup you have going there. I do all of my midi writing with a notation editor so I must admit I am jealous of your drummer.

But I am really on the fence here. I don't want to be a neo-primitive or anything, but I have never heard electronic drums that sounded real. Cool, certainly. But REAL? Maybe, like guitar, the gestalt is just too much for modelling to simulate, (yet).Then again, perhaps I am just ignorant. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

You should hear the DTEXTREME IIS brain module. It has a Motif engine in it and I would swear you couldn't tell the difference on some of the acoustic drum patches. The triggers even have rim triggers to fire off rim samples and some are dual zone to get different sounds on the outside than the inside. Some of the cymbals even have edge triggers to cut the sound when you grab them. It's a really neat setup. Our music is really techno-oriented though, so we don't do a whole lot in the way of "real" drum sounds. The kit just helps him put together the MIDI for more intricate patterns (plus he has fun just jamming on a set).

It's kinda like me and my Keystation MIDI controller. I like to play around and come up with ideas for the melody parts. Then I'll record them into the sequencer, quantize them, tweak them, and end up with (at least I think) better leads and basses as a result.

[Omniphonix]

By the way, some of our tracks can be found here and a new breakbeat track will be in the music cafe in a few weeks (using a lot more sequences built with the electronic kit). He played most of the drums in Excess Bandwidth live on the kit when we played here in Phoenix a few months ago.

[herodotus]

P.S. Those loops are coolio, bit too much 'k-v-r hi-hat disease' for me, but hey, thats what eq is for!

THANKS!! I will pm you when I have edited out more. (What we have been doing is just jamming to a metronome with the tape recorder on. I then transfer it to my DAW and go through the whole thing, picking out the parts that seem to rock.)

P.S. I have plenty of material with just ride cymbals (bell, shoulder, edge, etc.) and quite a bit with no cymbals at all. More coming soon.