History of the KVR Developer Challenge-Very Old Thread

[tuz]

hi everybody,

here's my idea. I would really appreciate it if you could read it.

1. KVR would announce the theme for the plugin (instrument, effect) doesn't matter... could be voted by the members. Each instrument or effect, depending on the agreed time frame would have a deadline (one month, three months... whatever) Of course for this to work it has to be decided how long each type for instrument or effect would take to develop. we would have a template that lists all types of plugins and stuff. Of course the type of the plugin in terms of PC or MAC or whatever would be decided by the members as well.
----Let's say we all voted for a Kazoo VSTi and it happened to have an agreed development time of 1 month. (and let's say we chose "other" in the plugin category template and wrote down KAZOO!!!)
The rules would be simple: obviously it has to be a Kazoo VSTi. It has to be made in a month. now here's the good part for us... it has to be FREE... and it can be made with any type of software.
2. KVR would open an account... say with paypal (I really hope they can do this) and we, as members would start donating let's say a minimum of $5.00 (a relatively small amount, but when 500 people have donated cha-ching. ) since it's KVR that's doing this we all would be OK to donate because we trust it and we friggin love it.
3. a month would pass. the votes would come in and the winner would be announced and then the best man would get the big bucks... $2500.00 not bad for a month's work...

I think this would be a great incentive for the developers who work their asses off most of the time and get no money out of it. I know for most it's about satisfaction, but money would be nice, too wouldn't it? $5.00 is nothing when you think about it. A pack of cigarettes which I finish in half a day costs that much. I wouldn't have a problem donating when I think about that. and imagine what kind of f....d up plugins (in a good way) we would get for free when the developers go wild thinking about $2500.00. I think it would be very beneficial for both the developers and for us non-developers. I know it would suck for the losers but doesn't it always? they would put in all those hours and they would end up with nothing. well, personally, I appreciate every developer who work all those hours for their plugins so that we could enjoy them for free. this way they have the opportunity to please the crowd as well as themselves when they see the satisfaction and even make some money on the side (ORGASM). I'm sure no one will be offended when they's offered some money for their hard work. It would be well deserved. most of the time they ask kindly for donations and they get nothing. I don't know... this is just an idea that popped into my head all of a sudden. music cafe inspired me. the setup could be similar. we could have the rules and submissions. the gossip. and the results. I really hope the devs go for this. I'm telling you it would be awesome. we could even set it up so that the first three get something. I really hope this gets read and commented on. I'm sure that I don't have all the bases covered so that's why it would be good to have a discussion and make sure there are no holes left. and I really hope this is the right spot to post this. it seemed reasonable.


take care

tuz


edit: just added poll

[Borogove]

I think that it would make sense to start off without putting money on the line and see how that goes.

[morelia]

You wouldn't by any chance be approx 1 month away from releasing your Kazoo vsti would you?

[Timfonie]

That's an interesting idea, tuz. Personally I would vote for donating some money to the best three developers. I compare it with the lottery: the smaller the chance to win, the less I'm inclined to join in. (That's why I seldom get get involved in lotteries )

One caution though: how to check if a developer only spent one month on a plugin, instead of finishing something which was almost complete allready?

Anyway, most small scale developers are developing not for money in the first place. It's often a matter of challenge, pleasure, proud and prestige, or getting experience to put on a C.V. And of course to develop something for a personal need when no satisfactory alernatives exists. And how great it is to see other using your creation.

We may do a simple questionaire first to see if developers are much more tempted to join a competition if some money is involved.

And the winner is ... the KvR community!

[liars&ashes]

That's an interesting idea, tuz. Personally I would vote for donating some money to the best three developers.

----I like that multiple-winners part,50%-30%-20% or something for the top 3,or at least 65%-35% for top 2,or even 40%-30%-20%-10% for top 4,just to make it more "fair",and like a real competition event.
----I doubt it could be organized to happen monthly,but even twice a year,or whatever could be done would be kinda cool,for $5.00-$10.00 I'm in,who wouldn't be.

jffe

[Mental Audio Deviations]

I like it and would certainly give some money for prizes. Hopefully this takes off. Any dev's responded yet?

[McLilith]

If it were made an annual event, the prize money could be larger, and you might attract a higher quality level of plugins. This should also give developers plenty of time to put something interesting together. I would suggest having different categories for effects and instruments. If done properly, this could actually grow into a respected annual event. (Sort of like the Academy Awards, but for VST developers.)

As for themes, I really detest themes in artistic contests. It's such an arbitrarily limiting kludge to place upon a creative individual. Why not just let each developer make the most interesting VST/VSTi they can make, and let everyone pick from that?

Is this only intended for freeware plugins?

What about those commercial developers that might consider entering, but can't allow their sales to be adversely affected? Are you going to accept demo versions for judging?

If you accept commercial entries, what happens to a winning commercial product? Would the developer be expected to give the plugin away to those KVR members who donated to the prize fund, or perhaps offer them a discount?

If you did accept commercial entries, it might be best to keep them in a different category from any freeware entries.


take care,
McLilith

[tuz]

oh man... you guys have some really good points. I think it would be a good idea to do a feasibility poll. I'll do a quick edit.

[tuz]

multiple winners sounds good. so does annual I think it would be a huge event. it really doesn't matter if the plugin was made before the competition though. I mean the best plugin wins. if it's good enough and people vote for it, it'll win. I really hope the developers get interested in this. obviously I'm not going to be the decision maker in this thing, I'm just brainstorming with you guys. we'll just do whatever is the most logical. by the way, my suggestion would be that if commercial devs decide to enter their plugin still should be free. they could make a commercial version and a version for the competition with no updates or something I guess. on the other hand I think everyone should be treated equally. if this takes off and it's an annual event, it could mean a hell of an amount. I don't know, maybe even 10K or something. I don't know... I guess we'll have to see more suggestions and ideas. I can think of a few devs being interested in this though. I would also imagine that there'll be a lot of participation in terms of putting money in for the whole thing. imagine 3 months of collecting money and 9 months for the competition. 3 months 1200 people and $18,000.00 dollars. I mean, come on who can't afford 10-15 dollars.

[tuz]

cool!!! someone just pledged $10.00.

[Hunter]

Hmmm, knowing a small developer I'm not sure that they would be willing to spend so much time on something that could result in nothing if they don't 'win'. Its so hard for small devs to get their own commercial products done and marketed and updated and supported and so on. Dont forget alpha, and beta testing across all platforms/systems takes up a lot of time, as does finding and fixing each and every bug..., getting the gui done, etc etc...

not trying to piss on your bonfire but just putting a reality aspect to your cool idea

I just dont think people realise how much work small devs have to put into their own existing products just to stay afloat... , we're talking up to 12 hour days 6/7 days a week... even after a product is released the amount of time that goes into support, marketing, updates etc is absolutely staggering.

But cool idea , i think if it wasn'nt for piracy it would be a much more feasible experiment ... but I hope you get some feedback and interest

Jim

[McLilith]

Hmmm, knowing a small developer I'm not sure that they would be willing to spend so much time on something that could result in nothing if they don't 'win'. Its so hard for small devs to get their own commercial products done and marketed and updated and supported and so on. Dont forget alpha, and beta testing across all platforms/systems takes up a lot of time, as does finding and fixing each and every bug..., getting the gui done, etc etc...

That's sort of why I wondered if this idea was meant only for freeware developers, who really have "nothing to lose" if they don't win the contest.

Commercial developers might enter demo versions or light versions, but there needs to be a good reason to even do that. They need some sort of benefit, even if they don't win the contest. They have to financially justify the time spent on the activities of creating an entry for the contest, offering tech support for all the people who end up with the plugin, etc. Until the day when, and if , this contest gets to be a big and important event in the minds of the global VST-buying public, don't expect too many commercial developers to create a new plugin just for the contest. It's just too much effort and money to expend on such a long shot gamble. It's much more realistic to think that they might offer a plugin that they had already been working on.

Also, they won't be doing it for the prize money, because statistically speaking they probably won't get the prize money anyway. They will have to be motivated by something besides mere prize money. If you can make this event an extremely well publicized event, with music magazines around the world pledging to cover this as an important news event, some manufacturers might be willing to offer a demo version of the latest VST they had already been working on, just for some publicity. They also get bragging rights, if they win.

Once again, I wonder what would happen if a non-freeware entry was declared the winner? After all those people had paid money into the coffers, they would probably expect something in return. With a freeware program, they can at least take pride in supporting a deserving freeware author, as well as enjoying their freeware plugin. However, a commercial winner would be much different. A lightweight version of a plugin that a commercial developer might release as freeware, or on a magazine cover disc, might possibly end up in the contest, just for some publicity. However, their best products are typically going to be their commercial products. Do you expect them to offer the plugin for free to everyone who chipped in money? That would be the equivalent of selling the plugin for $5 - $10 per person. That's not exactly attractive money for a commercial developer who might be used to triple digit prices. The value of the publicity and bragging rights would have to be undeniably huge to encourage a developer to settle for such a low monetary return on their investment. Even then, I can't see it being worth their time--unless the entry was a definite lightweight version that generated interest in the full version they sold for full price--or the entry was strictly a demo version, and the developer pledged to offer reasonable discounts to the people who had donated, in the event that their entry won.

I think it might be possible to do something like this for freeware developers, but to attract commercial products, you will need to offer something of real value to all the developers who enter, not just the winners. If you want to pursue the commercial entries, this will all get very complicated, very quickly. You will have to develop this into a very large and credible global event to attract entries from the better commercial developers. There's going to be a lot of hard work and ingenuity, to get such a fantasy turned into a reality.

I wish you luck, and I am willing to help some, if I can. If nothing else, I could always donate 5 or 10 dollars to the cause.

I think we could definitely provide a mechanism for promotion and reward for deserving freeware authors, if nothing else.


take care,
McLilith

[foosnark]

I think with a format like that, whether I chipped in would depend on two things:

- the theme of that particular contest (if any)

- whether people who don't donate don't get the software

[Markleford]

I think the sentiment is fantastic, but the planned execution is guaranteed to fail.

How 'bout people just donate straight to the developers instead?

- m

[useruseruser]

What to f**k some of you guys think developers are?

Brainless success junkies? Bored millionaries with tonns of spare time? KVR "marketing" orgasm freaks? ...



Wish you much luck with that "idea".

(And I wish I had that time you obviously have.)