Oh Melody where have you gone...?

[Vinz]

the kinds of arrengements possible with electronica are faaaaaar out of reach with any classical composition...therefore I draw the conclusion that electronica is more advanced than many other types of music.

Fractalism, care to give some examples of what you consider super advanced electronica ?

Been listening to every kind of electronica for some time now, and used to think like you do, but I recently began to get tired of it, thinking that in the end 95% of it have quite simple arrangements under the not always so complicated sounds, especially now that I've a much better understanding of how it's made.

On the other hand I started recently to listen to classical music, and at first had a rough time to appreciate it because it felt much more complicated to my hears, but even now that I understand better the underlying rules, I'm still quite amazed (again, not by everything, but I'm really fond of romanticism).

[snooky]

well, I like all music that has it's own style and character...I like Classical and I love Electronic...it's matter of taste, but I have yet to hear a single piece of classical that can move atoms like a big phat house choon...just sounds more alive to me...or i dunno... www.protonradio.com have lots of dif shows, some of which are superb examples of advanced electronica

[Stupid American Pig]

I think any sequenced music has the potential to be much more advanced, but it rarely is, as songwriting is key...

[WillieJenkins]

I've been known to get great melodies using only reaktor and uranus

[griels]

I've been known to get great melodies using only reaktor and uranus

Uranus? Ah, the name they considered before Atonal

[VicDiesel]

clueless quoth AFAIK You can also thank him for G flat and F sharp producing the same intonation when you press them on your controller keyboard...

Thus buggering up harmony good and proper.

Right. And it is so easy to add a couple of keys to each octave.



V.

[KrunietZ]

clueless quoth AFAIK You can also thank him for G flat and F sharp producing the same intonation when you press them on your controller keyboard...

Thus buggering up harmony good and proper.

Right. And it is so easy to add a couple of keys to each octave.



V.

forcrissake is that a modular??

[VicDiesel]

forcrissake is that a modular??

Nope, microtonal organ with 31 keys per octave so that you have both C# and Db on separate keys. And more.

Google for "fokker organ".

V.

[clueless]

i'm not getting gear lust...

[The Chase]

Bloody hell this shit has taken off since last night!
I'm not going to read throuhg all 7 pages so im gonna give up on it.

[Caleb]

its the same as saying im a better human than you.its obvious that were just different

But I AM better than you. Didn't you get the memo?

Caleb

[tony Smyth]

Quote from Vinz: Been listening to every kind of electronica for some time now, and used to think like you do, but I recently began to get tired of it, thinking that in the end 95% of it have quite simple arrangements under the not always so complicated sounds, especially now that I've a much better understanding of how it's made.

Yep, that what Ive been finding too. If you listen to the eraly Eye Q stuff, its kicking, trancey (before that became a cheesy cliche) and yet still has melody too.

Its not a question of Either/Or, or classical vs electronica. I just think that a lot of the music I hear recently, that only focuses on rhythm/groove and timbre exclusively is a bit tiresome, esp if its done to a formula. Its a bit like trying to sit on a two legged stool. This doesn't mean there isnt brilliant and original electronica out there, it just seesm to be harder to find these days.

Been finding myself listening to Talking Heads 'Fear of Music' and Mclaughlins Shakti and really enjoying it. BUT Having said that I cant got too long without hearing something that has THE KILLER GROOVE, and I dont get that from Jazz or classical.

Where is the music that has it all?

[VitaminD]

Been listening to every kind of electronica for some time now, and used to think like you do, but I recently began to get tired of it, thinking that in the end 95% of it have quite simple arrangements under the not always so complicated sounds, especially now that I've a much better understanding of how it's made.

On the other hand I started recently to listen to classical music, and at first had a rough time to appreciate it because it felt much more complicated to my hears, but even now that I understand better the underlying rules, I'm still quite amazed (again, not by everything, but I'm really fond of romanticism).

okay so I missed the first couple pages.. maybe this has already been beaten with a stick to death.. but

oooh yeps.. this is what I believe too.. I think most (or just some?) of us are more 'amazed' by some songs where we do not know how they were created and/or have patterns that seem complex or even beyond us.. in a way.

of course I have 0 proof to this and there would be exceptions.. but I think you're on to something

When I was growing up.. I listened to top40 pop.. I was amazed... listened to enough of it that I could figure out the major patterns and formulas (why is it that so much top40 music in the 80s ended with a slow fade out? ) that I got bored..

then.. after I got bored of it.. I moved to rap.. was amazed.. especially but the underlying rhythms.. eventually heard enough of it that I could figure out the major patterns and formulas that I got bored of it.. BOOOM chhchachhchha BOOOMBABOOOM BOOOOOM etc..

then after I got bored of it.. I moved to techno... was amazed.. listened to enough of it that I could figure out the major patterns and formulas.. etc you get the picture

so maybe its just me.. but I feel less amazed by music after I can pick out the patterns, melodies, and such..

and thats not to say I dont like some songs that I find musically simplistic.. just most.

and thats also not to say that I'm amazed by all types of music I consider complex or beyond my understanding (of how it was created).. just that it is an enhancement to certain feelings on music to me.

okay through with the blab.. sorry to go off on a babblefest however, this is one of those things thats been on my mind for a while .. somewhere in the back just waiting to be unloaded..

[snooky]

Almost anyone with a musical talent can learn to compose classical...but very few can compose electronica

Bullshit. Try comparing the userbase of electronic versus classical composition forums for an actual metric. You'll find that there are numbers of people writing electronica by orders of magnitude over classical.

Part of this is merely preference: electronic is the pop music of our day. Part of it is the entrance price: it's quite easy to buy a copy of FL or Orion or Reason or ACID and be ready to go. (Though GPO rocks as an affordable starter classical package!)

But when it comes down to it, composing electronica is as easy as putting a bass line over a drum beat. And both of those can be loops. Electronica dramatically lowers the bar for inclusion in the world of "composers".

So, Do you honsetly think that Bach or Mozart would understand and succefully compose electronica if they were alive today??

Yes. And why not? And why do the two have to be mutually exclusive?

It takes a certain kind of brainfunktion/type to appreitiate electronic sounds...not everyone can do it...but almost anyone can understand classical.

More crap. So it takes no knowledge or sensitivity to understand the combined timbres of 80+ orchestral instruments with all their different articulations, modulations, and techniques?

And somehow a TB-303 with two waveforms and few knobs is a complete mystery to a classical composer?

You have a serious misunderstanding of the depth of knowledge required to compose for a large ensemble. Using a string patch does *not* make you a symphonic composer, just as using an electric piano doesn't make you a jazz composer.

You simply lack the knowledge to make these claims.

On the other hand, I'm not tearing down electronica. Great electronica is an achievement, a true artform. But average electronica is infinitely easier to produce than average classical.

At least this is what I belive...not sure if it's true.

At least you admit it. Passionate belief is commendable, but wishing doesn't make it so. I'd claim that your assertion is most definitely *not* true, and can assemble some logical data as evidence.

- m

Why the harsh words Mr. Markleford??
I don't think that you are in any position to deny me my rights to have opinions and thoughts about this subject or anything else...I belive that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it...and there are more ppl born with brains capable of understanding classical than there are ppl capable of understanding electronica.
I'm not talking about how many produce any one kind of style just now..sure there are more electronic producers than classical composers, but if a complete 80+ piece symphony orchestra could be downloaded from the net or otherwis, I'm quite sure that many, many more would engage in classical composing...

It's much easier to begin writing electronica yes, but judging from the nr of ambient bollocks and boring meanderings avalible on the net as free downloads, it's very, very obvoius that the spirit of electroica is not in the hearts of everyone...

You will not change my mind on this subject so anyone wanting to tell me otherwise, please don't...use your energy for something more constructive.

Electronica and real music is in my heart and soul, classical is very interesting and powerfull, so is underground hiphop, indie rock and more experimental styles...but nothing touches electronica...not in my world.

[clueless]

Great googalooga, can't you hear me talking to you.
Sayin'... ball of confusion.
That's what the world is today, hey, hey.