would Reason crash if they started supporting VSTs?
you betcha
Thats just the nature of the game, and the price we pay for all these wonderfull 3rd party plugs.
anyways, they are both excellent programs...to each his own.
Fruity or Reason
-
- GRRRRRRR!
- 17817 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere you're not!
sidhu, have you considered ORION Platinum? I think you may find it the best of both worlds. Its instruments are more than a match for Reason and it has all the other advantages of Fruity. If you are a recording engineer you may also appreciate its workflow more than the others. You should definitely try the demo, I'm sure you will get more out of it than either Reason or Fruity.
As to price, I think you will find it better value than Fruity when you look at how much of the good stuff in the Fruity demo is an add-on, not covered in the price.
As to price, I think you will find it better value than Fruity when you look at how much of the good stuff in the Fruity demo is an add-on, not covered in the price.
What about load VST effects and instruments? Or DX? How many common sample formats are supported in Reason? AKAI? Kurzweil? XI? Soundfonts? NI? Can you run it as a VSTi inside another host? [one that may not support ReWire] Its incredibly limited, it doesn't even appear in any of the quick-links here. You would really have to work hard to finish a song with it.ttoz wrote:Everything you can do with FL (besides audio RECORDING), you can do in reason
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron
-
- KVRAF
- 2582 posts since 24 Apr, 2003 from Canada
Not sure your aware of it BONES, but Reason natively supports soundfonts. Also it comes with a specialized sample converter for akai libraries (Reload I think its called?). As for Kurz, XI, NI (whats that?) these aren't exactly common formats... Lets face it, Akai, SF2 and Giga really cover 95% of whats out there.BONES wrote: How many common sample formats are supported in Reason? AKAI? Kurzweil? XI? Soundfonts? NI?
That said, I really wish NN-XT loaded .gig, even if it doesn't stream.
-
- KVRer
- 5 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Reason vs Anything Else is one of the age old arguments on the net as far as DAWs go. Before Reason it was Rebirth vs Anything Else.
So with that, Reason is outstanding for what you get for the money, basicaly an astounding sampler. Like someone mentioned earlier, if they released each element of their generators in a vsti format, people would ditch Reason. The samplers are rock solid and the library you get with reason, particularly Orkester is top notch. Technicaly the devs know what they are doing, have known it for a long time but refuse to aknowledge the fact that versatility is key... look at the success of Native Instruments, they wont create a sequencer because other companies have that market cornered and have it cornered well. If PH did that they would make alot of other companies shit bricks.
Im a FLS die hard, ive used it for years. For me, the vsti support is absolutely indespensible, the sequencer is fantastic unlike reason (OMG what were they thinking?!) Both support rewire and really I dont think i could use Reason without rewire but do well enough with Fruity without it. Now the FLS sequencer doesnt seem as powerfull as the major apps, it really is, just things are done differently and therefor it gets a bad rap.
Reason is great alongside Cubase, and I had some success with Fruity and Reason rewired, but not enough to warrant buying Reason. If I had the money, id definately buy Reason just for the Orkester sounds and some of the rex files, though FLS now supports rex and consequently Reason is less desirable.
The cool thing about Reason is the routing, hands down it tops just about any other app, modular environments like Reaktor aside. Some people say Reason is limited, I say its a real life challenge just like owning a hardware studio, it comes down to how well you know your gear and the limits you can push. You can get Reason to do REALLY COOL THINGS, more than you can get out of the equivalent hardware set up and even more than you can get out of a pile of vstis, you can route anything to anything, drums controling filters and CVs controling whatever... etc...BUT... like a hardware studio, you need a good sequencer... which Reason just doesnt have on its own... PERIOD. Its a great modular studio without a great sequencer.
Another "bad" thing about Reason is that you have the exact same studio set up as XX amount of people. That can only breed stagnation. As creative as you get with Reason, some other nerd has done the EXACT same thing. Mixed with something like Cubase or Live its not so bad BUT... still, you and thousands of other kids are still using the exact same synths and samples.
Now to pump FLS, Fruity is the red headed stepchild of DAWs, its odd to be polite. If you can get past the step sequencer and look 'under the hood' as was mentioned earlier its quite a powerfull app. Ive had people boast about how great the new SX3 is, you can isolate a frequency of yadda yadda and send that to a mixer channel... GREAT!... but not worth the price tag. I can do the same thing in fruity with a few extra steps and I havent paid for an upgrade since the jump from Fruity Loops Pro to FL Studio Pro... which is... one payout since 1996! I really didnt need to upgrade fruity but did anyway, it was only 50 yankee papers. On that update note... FLS is backed by a really cool dev team, much like Traction. When you have an issue, the message boards are extremely helpfull, if the user base cant help, chances are the lead programmer will answer himself. Especially if its a challenge. Will propellor heads or steinberg do that?
You can do amazing things with FLS, even without extra external vsts. The 3X Oscillator is great, as long as you actually know how to program a synth. The sampler channels are amazing, I can drop in anything and within a few knob tweaks I can have a kick drum sounding like a bass synth. Its an experimenters wet dream. There so many ways to achieve your goals, which turns off alot of people but turns on just as many. I could probably write a book about the cool things you can do in FLS, maybe I should.
Its just the way it was developed. The idea, for years, has been that the user base has requested functionality and the dev team has made it a reality. SOME HOW!!! Maybe not overnight, but things get added eventualy. Its shocking, really the only thing they havent done and wont do is code a mac version.
Things I wanted to see in version 2.0 I now have. Like independant pattern lengths, a wav editor, audio recording, breakpoint envelopes in the playlist. Sure its v.5x now but hell they did it eventualy.... Im still waiting on wav views of patterns in the playlist and maybe a larger view of the mixer window... those peak meters are pretty damn small.
Regardless my wishes are not very important now or have been granted without me even having them in the first place... like the new stretch feature. Also functionality like the Dashboard, you can make a custom interface controlling everything in a track that you would want to have immediate hands on control of. This is stupidly powerful for live performance... picture having one console with knobs and sliders for everything you might want to control in a track, all your synths, all your filters, all your mixer sliders, all your knobs and sliders from fort fricking nowhere, all in one window, sure it takes some set up time but at least you can do it. Again another feature I didnt ask for but got, and got alot of use out of too.
Next on the list for me and FLS is break point envelopes like Ableton live has... yes we have them in automation clips... which kicks ass, but id like to see sampler channels have them in the ADSR. Really though the ADSR you get already is just fine. In Reason you have the Matrix controler which is cool, but Im sure fruity could have if enough people requested it.... even though its technicaly redundant.
My personal condensed viepoint is, Reason is an instrument (albeit a studio in an instrument) and FLS is a music creation environment.
Price to Value... Im sorry but you cant beat FLS, its dirt cheap and free upgrades (jump from fruity loops pro to FLS aside).
Id suggest using both as much as you can, to see how you prefer to work. I must stress though, that fruity can do crazy things if you look under the hood. Before you say fruity cant do something just ask around here or a bunch of other boards and make sure its impossible. Like I said its the red headed step child of DAWs and as such, alot of its functionality is buried beneath its "fisher price" exterior.
Alternatively, you might also want to check out Orion Platinum, and Ableton Live... (Live... kicks a whole pile of ass and id totally switch to it if I ever get sick enough of windows and work with a mac) Ive heard great things about Traction... actualy nothing but great things about Traction and its a smaller dev team so chances are your voice will be heard if you have a concern or some sort of ground breaking concept.
If you like a steep learning curve, go with one of the major DAWs, like Cubase or Logic. Its also a financial issue, if you have the cash and ability to learn complex apps. Both are very powerfull once you learn them. I like Cubase quite a bit and would be using it if FLS and Ableton Live were never created. But for now FLS is my main environment. If I did my own mastering I would use something else, thankfully some other nerd gets saddled with that job.
Have I had anything released? YES, and have more on the way, all with FLS... and Ill never regret my choice. Fruity is like an appendage. If it controlled doing up my zipper id never be able to do up my pants without it. Leading to many a social faux pas.
But really it comes down to you, no app is worth jack shite to you if you dont like using it, the only way to know that is to knuckle down and use it.
So with that, Reason is outstanding for what you get for the money, basicaly an astounding sampler. Like someone mentioned earlier, if they released each element of their generators in a vsti format, people would ditch Reason. The samplers are rock solid and the library you get with reason, particularly Orkester is top notch. Technicaly the devs know what they are doing, have known it for a long time but refuse to aknowledge the fact that versatility is key... look at the success of Native Instruments, they wont create a sequencer because other companies have that market cornered and have it cornered well. If PH did that they would make alot of other companies shit bricks.
Im a FLS die hard, ive used it for years. For me, the vsti support is absolutely indespensible, the sequencer is fantastic unlike reason (OMG what were they thinking?!) Both support rewire and really I dont think i could use Reason without rewire but do well enough with Fruity without it. Now the FLS sequencer doesnt seem as powerfull as the major apps, it really is, just things are done differently and therefor it gets a bad rap.
Reason is great alongside Cubase, and I had some success with Fruity and Reason rewired, but not enough to warrant buying Reason. If I had the money, id definately buy Reason just for the Orkester sounds and some of the rex files, though FLS now supports rex and consequently Reason is less desirable.
The cool thing about Reason is the routing, hands down it tops just about any other app, modular environments like Reaktor aside. Some people say Reason is limited, I say its a real life challenge just like owning a hardware studio, it comes down to how well you know your gear and the limits you can push. You can get Reason to do REALLY COOL THINGS, more than you can get out of the equivalent hardware set up and even more than you can get out of a pile of vstis, you can route anything to anything, drums controling filters and CVs controling whatever... etc...BUT... like a hardware studio, you need a good sequencer... which Reason just doesnt have on its own... PERIOD. Its a great modular studio without a great sequencer.
Another "bad" thing about Reason is that you have the exact same studio set up as XX amount of people. That can only breed stagnation. As creative as you get with Reason, some other nerd has done the EXACT same thing. Mixed with something like Cubase or Live its not so bad BUT... still, you and thousands of other kids are still using the exact same synths and samples.
Now to pump FLS, Fruity is the red headed stepchild of DAWs, its odd to be polite. If you can get past the step sequencer and look 'under the hood' as was mentioned earlier its quite a powerfull app. Ive had people boast about how great the new SX3 is, you can isolate a frequency of yadda yadda and send that to a mixer channel... GREAT!... but not worth the price tag. I can do the same thing in fruity with a few extra steps and I havent paid for an upgrade since the jump from Fruity Loops Pro to FL Studio Pro... which is... one payout since 1996! I really didnt need to upgrade fruity but did anyway, it was only 50 yankee papers. On that update note... FLS is backed by a really cool dev team, much like Traction. When you have an issue, the message boards are extremely helpfull, if the user base cant help, chances are the lead programmer will answer himself. Especially if its a challenge. Will propellor heads or steinberg do that?
You can do amazing things with FLS, even without extra external vsts. The 3X Oscillator is great, as long as you actually know how to program a synth. The sampler channels are amazing, I can drop in anything and within a few knob tweaks I can have a kick drum sounding like a bass synth. Its an experimenters wet dream. There so many ways to achieve your goals, which turns off alot of people but turns on just as many. I could probably write a book about the cool things you can do in FLS, maybe I should.
Its just the way it was developed. The idea, for years, has been that the user base has requested functionality and the dev team has made it a reality. SOME HOW!!! Maybe not overnight, but things get added eventualy. Its shocking, really the only thing they havent done and wont do is code a mac version.
Things I wanted to see in version 2.0 I now have. Like independant pattern lengths, a wav editor, audio recording, breakpoint envelopes in the playlist. Sure its v.5x now but hell they did it eventualy.... Im still waiting on wav views of patterns in the playlist and maybe a larger view of the mixer window... those peak meters are pretty damn small.
Regardless my wishes are not very important now or have been granted without me even having them in the first place... like the new stretch feature. Also functionality like the Dashboard, you can make a custom interface controlling everything in a track that you would want to have immediate hands on control of. This is stupidly powerful for live performance... picture having one console with knobs and sliders for everything you might want to control in a track, all your synths, all your filters, all your mixer sliders, all your knobs and sliders from fort fricking nowhere, all in one window, sure it takes some set up time but at least you can do it. Again another feature I didnt ask for but got, and got alot of use out of too.
Next on the list for me and FLS is break point envelopes like Ableton live has... yes we have them in automation clips... which kicks ass, but id like to see sampler channels have them in the ADSR. Really though the ADSR you get already is just fine. In Reason you have the Matrix controler which is cool, but Im sure fruity could have if enough people requested it.... even though its technicaly redundant.
My personal condensed viepoint is, Reason is an instrument (albeit a studio in an instrument) and FLS is a music creation environment.
Price to Value... Im sorry but you cant beat FLS, its dirt cheap and free upgrades (jump from fruity loops pro to FLS aside).
Id suggest using both as much as you can, to see how you prefer to work. I must stress though, that fruity can do crazy things if you look under the hood. Before you say fruity cant do something just ask around here or a bunch of other boards and make sure its impossible. Like I said its the red headed step child of DAWs and as such, alot of its functionality is buried beneath its "fisher price" exterior.
Alternatively, you might also want to check out Orion Platinum, and Ableton Live... (Live... kicks a whole pile of ass and id totally switch to it if I ever get sick enough of windows and work with a mac) Ive heard great things about Traction... actualy nothing but great things about Traction and its a smaller dev team so chances are your voice will be heard if you have a concern or some sort of ground breaking concept.
If you like a steep learning curve, go with one of the major DAWs, like Cubase or Logic. Its also a financial issue, if you have the cash and ability to learn complex apps. Both are very powerfull once you learn them. I like Cubase quite a bit and would be using it if FLS and Ableton Live were never created. But for now FLS is my main environment. If I did my own mastering I would use something else, thankfully some other nerd gets saddled with that job.
Have I had anything released? YES, and have more on the way, all with FLS... and Ill never regret my choice. Fruity is like an appendage. If it controlled doing up my zipper id never be able to do up my pants without it. Leading to many a social faux pas.
But really it comes down to you, no app is worth jack shite to you if you dont like using it, the only way to know that is to knuckle down and use it.
-
- KVRist
- 294 posts since 27 Dec, 2003 from Woodland Hills, UT
-
- KVRer
- 5 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Thanks, I wish my writing could be as great as your painting! Music and words equaly.davidlinn wrote:Traumatek, that was a great post! Nuff said... I think.
Your art is stunning, very... biblical and post/apocalyptic. There must be story behind it, something to do with man's downfall and tornados... forgive me if Im wrong, Ive had a few beers...
Anyways... very good and thanks again
-
- KVRAF
- 1972 posts since 18 Apr, 2004
yeah man go on and right that book, cause FL users would find it very useful.
great post
peace
great post
peace
-
- KVRian
- 1144 posts since 9 Jan, 2004 from tOKYO
these are the prices @audiomidi.com
FL producer $149
Reason 3.0 $449
with the 300 bones you'd save you could sort yourself out with a really nice Rompler like Sonik Synth2 ($319)
FL producer $149
Reason 3.0 $449
with the 300 bones you'd save you could sort yourself out with a really nice Rompler like Sonik Synth2 ($319)
Not bad meaning bad but bad meaning good
-
- GRRRRRRR!
- 17817 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere you're not!
Actually, I had no idea which is why I asked the question. Propellerheads seem to be so anal about creating their own formats and ignoring industry standards, I'm surprised they support .sf2.floyd wrote:Not sure your aware of it BONES, but Reason natively supports soundfonts.
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1372 posts since 22 Sep, 2003 from New Delhi, India
Thank you all sop much for your help.
Ill like to elaborate a little now.
I am not into electronic music. So i only care that much for synths and stuff. Most of the sounds that they generate are beyond me. and I have rarely been able to throw a peice together, which incoporates such sound. But i am usually amazed to see what all has been done with these synths. My main aim being to be able to do simple music, having the flexibility for electronica, when i so evolve.
I have, as I mentioned before, worked a fair ammount with Reason. But I never been absolutely comfortable with it. And never been able to do anything exclusively in Reason, alwas needed rewire, which I find is pointless. One I dont like the workflow, having to constantly toggle aplications (thank god that i have a dual monitor setup). Two, I think i could use the system resource for better. Not to mention that reason will only impliment one stereo rewire bus, all others are mono (so you have to gang two mono busses in the master).
I find the sequencer within in reason to be tedious, even though I have head some great work done on it.
And I dont think one can mix in reason, the mixer is a joke (so is the automation).
note here that I am still a novice with reason, so my statings could be immature.
I usually end up using only NN-19/XT. Maybe subtractor, Malestorm for a pad or such. Most routing that is available I have not found need for (then again, it could be cause i have not discovered what they do).
I try to sequence using the redrum pattern sequencer, but find it a pain, and end up sequencing in the rewire host, routing to redrum. Yesterday, I could throw together a basic pattern using the default template in FL in under 2 minutes. The fact that i have all patterns across multiple tracks alwas visible made is a lot easier.
I totally agree with cOOkie. FL is very TRANCE. But ill try and not let that get in the way. May we could look at it from a newer age metal point of veiw (seeing where most metal is going these daz)
I will chek out Energy XT, and Orion. Still, im looking for something that I, not much of a musician, could enjoy using, somthing that could help me get going.
Reason : I think I need to be more harcore for that. FL : Seems comfy.
thank you all very much.
Sidhu
Ill like to elaborate a little now.
I am not into electronic music. So i only care that much for synths and stuff. Most of the sounds that they generate are beyond me. and I have rarely been able to throw a peice together, which incoporates such sound. But i am usually amazed to see what all has been done with these synths. My main aim being to be able to do simple music, having the flexibility for electronica, when i so evolve.
I have, as I mentioned before, worked a fair ammount with Reason. But I never been absolutely comfortable with it. And never been able to do anything exclusively in Reason, alwas needed rewire, which I find is pointless. One I dont like the workflow, having to constantly toggle aplications (thank god that i have a dual monitor setup). Two, I think i could use the system resource for better. Not to mention that reason will only impliment one stereo rewire bus, all others are mono (so you have to gang two mono busses in the master).
I find the sequencer within in reason to be tedious, even though I have head some great work done on it.
And I dont think one can mix in reason, the mixer is a joke (so is the automation).
note here that I am still a novice with reason, so my statings could be immature.
I usually end up using only NN-19/XT. Maybe subtractor, Malestorm for a pad or such. Most routing that is available I have not found need for (then again, it could be cause i have not discovered what they do).
I try to sequence using the redrum pattern sequencer, but find it a pain, and end up sequencing in the rewire host, routing to redrum. Yesterday, I could throw together a basic pattern using the default template in FL in under 2 minutes. The fact that i have all patterns across multiple tracks alwas visible made is a lot easier.
I totally agree with cOOkie. FL is very TRANCE. But ill try and not let that get in the way. May we could look at it from a newer age metal point of veiw (seeing where most metal is going these daz)
I will chek out Energy XT, and Orion. Still, im looking for something that I, not much of a musician, could enjoy using, somthing that could help me get going.
Reason : I think I need to be more harcore for that. FL : Seems comfy.
thank you all very much.
Sidhu
-
- KVRist
- 331 posts since 30 Mar, 2003
FL Studio, using the SoundFont player -sidhu wrote:Thank you all sop much for your help.
Ill like to elaborate a little now.
I am not into electronic music.
http://forum.e-officedirect.com/forum.e ... anfare.mp3
Carb.
-
- KVRian
- 624 posts since 22 Jan, 2003 from USA
Instead, it seems thay created a standard that almost every host uses now...BONES wrote:Actually, I had no idea which is why I asked the question. Propellerheads seem to be so anal about creating their own formats and ignoring industry standards, I'm surprised they support .sf2.floyd wrote:Not sure your aware of it BONES, but Reason natively supports soundfonts.
Rewire.
That's not ignoring industry standards...its defining them.
-="I beat the Internet...the end guy is hard"=-
-
- KVRist
- 331 posts since 30 Mar, 2003
That's only because they refused to support anyone elses standards, I watched companies cave in and reluctantly support Rewire, it's not a badge of honour...drez wrote:Instead, it seems thay created a standard that almost every host uses now...
Rewire.
That's not ignoring industry standards...its defining them.
Carb.