Fruity or Reason

[Carbonboy]

Thank you all sop much for your help.

Ill like to elaborate a little now.

I am not into electronic music.

FL Studio, using the SoundFont player -

http://forum.e-officedirect.com/forum.e ... anfare.mp3

Carb.

Thats very impressive Carb. Im extremely curious to know what all SF's you were using.

im gonna listen that again!

Sidhu

Fluid R3 144
Papelmedia Trumpet
Papelmedia Strings
Papelmedia Flute

oh, and some Orchestral Percussion samples...totals about 158 Meg of samples.

Carb.

[TVD]

As mentione before, the best thing to do is try the demos. Yeah, that's a pain in the arse, but I believe there is a certain intangible magic between studioware and users.

My preferences would be, from best to not as useful:
LIVE 4. I use this al the time and if midi handling was a bit better it might be almost all the time. LIVE 4 does a great job loading VST instruments and has great timing. I have yet to make it sound stoupid, even with intentionally bad looping followed by using LIVE's tools to fix the intentionally bad loops.

I like Orion Platinum. It was the best work space for me and the first studio package I purchased. I still like it and think it's synths are quite good, on par with Reason and able to import VSTi and DXi which is important as some synths are not only DXi.

Next down is Reason 2.5. It took a long time to get into it's way of working. I must say though, I think the synths are damn good. Maelstrom is very creative and while Subtractor won't win any medals it's still quite capable. In terms of samples; this is where you update instrument sounds. Have a look around and you'll see hundreds of libraries for Reason's NN19XT sampler, which btw is a good sampler comparing to Kontakt, which is a great sampler.

Lastly, but certainly not bad, FruityLoops. I just don't like working in it's environment. There are lots of tutorials and a huge resource for users. In fact, that's one of the most impressive things I've seen. The Proppelerheads are nice guys and have an active site...and actively update for free until a new version comes out. Still, FL is free and getting the XXL version and Sytrus gives you a serious synth whith which to work. It too depends on it's sampler and the smaller, low CPU synths also part of the pack.

The way I see it, you should be able to use a soft studio out of the box and without another instrument. It's nice to have VST insruments but still, why did you buy it? To work in a good environment and feel comfortable.

I'd be on the lookout for Cakewalk's Project 5 2.0 due out in March. I'd wait unless it's a mission critical issue. I'd also give ACID 5 Pro a good look, it's far different from the buggy 4.x Pro. It also competes with Live 4's beat machenations although not in real time; otoh, the results are excellent and it's use of VST instruments and midi are near flawless.

So, I'd say wait and while waiting try some of the studios. I think Orion Platinum is a wonderful over-all studio and works well with other Rewire programs. With rgc:audo part of Cakewalk I'd really want to see if they unleash Rene on a strong synth, the one thing I felt was missing in 1.5. In terms of work flow it took me a bit of time to get into it, but it was near flawless once learned - took me about 2 weeks using it part time. 2 weeks doesn't seem that long to learn your major software program.

And lest any developers think I'm not being fair to their product, the truth is, I like them all in their own way. I work a certain way just as you and everyone else resonding here do. We can tell you our experiences and if we liked them, but that's something that one must experience on their own, preferably on their recording system.

They are all good. They all have good and bad points and beyond using the responses here as a small survey on what to consider, it would be foolish not to take advantage of the demos avaialable. Wait for Sonar, my gut reaction is there will be some pleasant surprises; simiilarly, wait until you can demo Reason 3. Definately try LIVE 4.1 it and ACID 5 should not be written off. Yeah, I'm bringing back the full field, but perhaps you might want to consider.

Though the youngest, LIVE has been an incredibly user friendly, made by musicians for musicians synth. I've spoken several times with the ACID crew, though Sony's name is on it it's still based in Madison Wi. and has many of the old employees.

The Cakewalk guys have the most experience which is why I say consider P5 2.0. Many of their updates are insanely generous in other products and they've had a great "bang for the buck" attitude since the early 1990s.

The Fruity team are around here and their site. They are nice guys; just don't do what I did and start arguments with Gol. That's the whole problem for me. I like and respect these guys that I actually feel bad when I try to select which is better. Who's to say? My way of working is the most important issue to me. If it were FL vs Reason, I couldn't honestly say, I haven't tried Reason 3 yet. I can say that I like the sequencer better in Reason and love Maelstrom and NN19XT, especially it's 3rd party support. But FL isn't designed to how I think, so how can I judge it fairly.

For that matter, who can be completely open, without using their bias. It's your biases that matter.

Best of luck!

Thank you for the essay Bruce. And I think it was fair & balance (even with your opinions included).

[XDVarenkor]

Lastly, but certainly not bad, FruityLoops. I just don't like working in it's environment. There are lots of tutorials and a huge resource for users. In fact, that's one of the most impressive things I've seen. The Proppelerheads are nice guys and have an active site...and actively update for free until a new version comes out. Still, FL is free and getting the XXL version and Sytrus gives you a serious synth whith which to work. It too depends on it's sampler and the smaller, low CPU synths also part of the pack.

Umm... You did realize, during your extensive experience of Reason, that the Proppelerheads (sic) didn't develop FLStudio?

[Reverend Rhythm]

Carbonbou! Nice! See, it's not what you use, it's how you use it.

[TeeLangSun]

Reason 3 is the bee's knees. I'd put the combinator patches that I've tested up against anything on the market. Its that good.

I love Reason's sequencer. It does exactly what I need and is super easy. With the new Control options, you now can record automation from as many sources as you can twiddle at once and with the new browser, you can browse patches and it will change the modules to whatever is in the patch, so you just find all the lead sounds, and cycle through them. Let reason handle the modules. Killer setup.

The new effects offer amazing new possibilites. The combinator patches for effects are as amazing as the synth patches. The best part is that the CPU utilization is still lower than anything else you'll find! I've never had reason crash on me and I've used it for 3 years. You won't find a more stable application, period.

I would definitely check out the 3.0 demo when it becomes available. It should be out anytime, methinks.

I agree that Reason 3.0 is pretty cool and I believe this update to be the smartest of any of the updates. The things coming in this update are useable by pretty much any Reason user as opposed to the prior updates which included things like a Vocoder which I'd be surprised to find that any one used in more than a few songs over a long period of time. A vocoder is the kind of thing that should be added after all the standard necessities have been added and 3.0 is beginning to add some standard necessities. Still, the sequencer, piano roll and editors in Reason continue to be neglected making Reason far less powerful as a sequencer, but a great piece of soft for sound design.

Comparing Reason to FL Studio, or other soft studio is misleading because neither could really replace the other. I strongly disagree with whoever said that you can do anything in Reason that you can do in FL, and vice versa. That's completely not true because nothing else has Reason's flexile routing which makes Reason totally unique, and Reason falls way short on most other things that soft studios do. A powerful sequencer with lots of features, VST/DX support, beatslicing is common to most sequencers and even though the Props invented this cool idea, Reason isn't able to do it. Reason also comes up short on features in general like key commands, undos and redos, Piano roll and features in the various editors are weak in Reason. Export options are very limited. Reason is very focused on certain things and go deep in those directions, but simply neglects anything that would tempt anyone to try to use Reason as a main sequencing environment. That happens to be FL Studio's strength. It's loaded to capacity with features and allows you to bring your own instruments to the table. From a user's perspective, this is very cool. I know which sampler I like most, so why whould I want to be forced to another one without the option of using what I want. That's what's cool about VST hosts. But one bizzare thing in FL that definately needs to be addressed is the lack of normal support for the modwheel. Very strange that this is not properly supported in FL. Some things can be made to work, and some things I still haven't figured out how to ge them to work, but nothing works right off the bat as it does in Cubase for example. Otherwise, I feel like FL is pretty complete as a sequencer. Of course, there are still things that could be added to it.

[drez]

Hey, all the fanboys in the house say yooooooooooo

Coming from an orion fanboy, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

Just pointing out the ignorance, which seems to run rampant about rewire.

[headquest]

I can do all of the above with Tracktion too right ? so why do I need another host ? Well, Video is one. I do also get a sampler. Bt most of all, I think it's the pattern sequencer that intreasts me. I am very weak at making good drum patters. and nothing has assisted me much so far.


I also want to know, video is important to me, does FL integrate well with video ? Does the plugin allow scrub along with timeline (for sync and stuff) ?

thnaks again

Sidhu

Tracktion has a sampler as of V.1.

Tracktion 2 has Video also (similar to FL5, i.e. floating window). In T2 video is QuickTime.

[Sidhu]

I can do all of the above with Tracktion too right ? so why do I need another host ? Well, Video is one. I do also get a sampler. Bt most of all, I think it's the pattern sequencer that intreasts me. I am very weak at making good drum patters. and nothing has assisted me much so far.


I also want to know, video is important to me, does FL integrate well with video ? Does the plugin allow scrub along with timeline (for sync and stuff) ?

thanks again

Sidhu

Tracktion has a sampler as of V.1.

Tracktion 2 has Video also (similar to FL5, i.e. floating window). In T2 video is QuickTime.

I know bout the built in sampler with T1. But is not it tooo basic ? I read that T2 has video. But i dont like the QT only factor. I try and stay away from QT. dont like the way it imposes itself on the system.

Still, main reason for using FL and not a host like Tracktion ?

Also, what are the sync options with FL ? I often need midi clock, and would like MTC also. I know that T2 has these.

thanks

Sidhu

[BONES]

The props don't have tons of money.

Compared to who? Micro$oft?

If they thought it was so "against their competing standard", then why did they openly embrace it?

Its not about competition, its about whether or not we need so many new standards that contribute little or nothing to the staus quo. ReWire is justifiable because it does something different but why create rex when .wav can do all of that stuff already? And why not support existing standards?

[headquest]

ReWire is justifiable because it does something different

After all the times I've seen you attacking ReWire in these forums, I never thought I'd hear you say that Bones. You seem to be backtracking at last, no doubt because of the evidence drez has produced...

but why create rex when .wav can do all of that stuff already?

Erm... well I dare say that drez can oblige with the appropriate press releases to once again demonstrate the error in your understanding of history, but...

...the REX file format originated with ReCycle in 1994. ReCycle was a revolutionary program that practically invented software beatslicing. This in fact predates the giga sample format, ACID, and most of the other formats you are no doubt thinking of.

You obviously have *an agenda*, but you are seriously misguided, and need to get a grip of the facts!

[drez]

Thank you, HQ. You have pointed out exactly what makes these arguments ridiculous... the fact that people don't know their history. The stuff people are doing with Wav files wasn't even on the map when the rex format came out. Recycle was THE application for beatslicing. Everything that has come along that does beatslicing was inspired by ReCycle!

You're right, people have an agenda because they don't want to admit that they might be wrong about something.

The props don't have tons of money.

Compared to who? Micro$oft?

Do you think that the Props had a bunch of money when Rewire came out in '97? Gimme a break. They created a standard that Logic, Cubase, and DP jumped on, and they were tiny! They had a great idea, and it caught on. If they profited from it, good for them! It has stood the test of time for 8+ years!

If they thought it was so "against their competing standard", then why did they openly embrace it?

Its not about competition, its about whether or not we need so many new standards that contribute little or nothing to the staus quo. ReWire is justifiable because it does something different but why create rex when .wav can do all of that stuff already? And why not support existing standards?

Goodness, man, neither Rewire or REX is a new standard! Have you not read anything I have posted about when they came about? Rewire has been supported in the Major sequencers longer than any of the other NEW sequencers have been around! It appears that the opposite is actually true in the fact that if an application doesn't support Rewire, then IT isn't supportting an existing standard. Rex has been out forever, Cubase has supported it for a looooooong time.

Bones, your arguments make absolutely no sense. It seems that all you want to do is bash on something, but you don't really know anything about it.

[tony tony chopper]

REX file format originated with ReCycle in 1994

The wav format (THE standard) exists since 1990 (& probably earlier), and is not only capable of holding slice markers with more features than REX, but is also extensible.

The Propellerheads never wanted to set up a standard with REX, but to protect their investment in their slicing tool. That's why they don't release the file format, but a player instead.

You can do a manual slicing in any audio editor using WAV cue point markers. You can name them, give them a length, and even assign them a key.


On a related note, personally I'd like to set up a (reliable) standard as for storing tempo information in WAV files. The ACID extension does it, but unfortunately not in a good way (meaning it's there, but not always reliable), and it's not public. Adobe Audition stores it as well, but it's not public neither, and they don't seem to want to make it public. Problem is that if it's not supported in any audio editor, it has no value.

[drez]

REX file format originated with ReCycle in 1994

The wav format (THE standard) exists since 1990 (& probably earlier), and is not only capable of holding slice markers with more features than REX, but is also extensible.

So what application was USING these slice markers in wav files in 1990?

[tony tony chopper]

So what application was USING these slice markers in wav files in 1990?

audio editors

..not for slicing, but as.. markers. They're generic markers, they weren't made to mark beat slices, but are perfect for that purpose.

And even if markers hadn't existed, they could have added them to the WAV format without problem. Of course, everyone would then have known, and it'd have potentially hurt their sales if competiting apps had started to use the same format.

(proof that they work is that Audition & FL are using them for beat-slicing)

[TeeLangSun]

REX file format originated with ReCycle in 1994

The wav format (THE standard) exists since 1990 (& probably earlier), and is not only capable of holding slice markers with more features than REX, but is also extensible.

So what application was USING these slice markers in wav files in 1990?

I believe the answer is hardware samplers, but I'm not sure. But I'm curious to know what application was using Rex files back in 1994. Possibly also hardware samplers?