Could someone please explain anti-loop snobbery?

[stag]

There are so many music without an hint of originality and there isn´t a single loop in there Other people from a single loop and Intakt or whatever they use ,manage to score an entire new drum track of course to do that and be creative there is more trial and error and reading manuals than wanking C F G Em and call themselves composeres ,even if pays the bills.

The ones who have giged with a Rock band ,a genre where colective composition is the bussiness ,they shure are no musicians too By some people standarts.
Among of you, aside from some short passage ,an outro or an intro ,recall given precise directions to the band drummer ??? or bassist ??? Ain´t that fun ?? three guys and a lot will doing some tunes...are you going to ask them what happened on the rehersal room?? or just enjoy.

[quincy]

I think that as long as an individual recognises and acknowledges their influences and contributors then they can do what they like and to hell with what anyone else thinks.

I think a lot of snobbery comes from the fact that people like to to think that they are more musician than someone else, or that they have more "pure" methods or whatever. But if you take that to extremes then you could say that any music not written using in notation using a quill and parchment for an orchestra isn't a real musician.

Lets just enjoy the music and be happy that there is so much choice in terms of musical styles and ways to make music. The fact that nearly anyone can create music that others can enjoy should be embraced.

[hao nao]

answering the original post: nope, can't explain it

in my case, drum clips (both audio and midi) have been educational, teaching me about different styles and how to hear and analyze and "think in drums"

still developing my multitrack mind

maybe for some styles there are typical kinds of drum accompaniment

but I could understand how people might object if someone actually became famous and made lots of money using only loops in a style of music where the rhythm was the main course

damn them!!!

but on the other hand, painters are limited by the tools of their craft, and even in Kitchen Stadium there are only so many ingredients to be combined

and because limits often help creativity, it might be a good challenge for people to make something exceptional using only other people's loops

further rambling: herodotus, I see that you have put up some of your own drum loops, which is cool ... I wonder if someday there might be a KvR Elements forum, where people can link their loops for others to play with

the art of combinations ...

[Lunch Money]

Is it just me, or is it literally impossible to focus on the blue words in stag's post? Not meant as a dig at you at all, stag, just found it amusing that it's actually IMPOSSIBLE for me to focus on them!

I think optical fudge-uppery like that is wicked cool.

Greg

[glurgle]

well I had to highlight them to read them, but I'm rather drunk so...

[VitaminD]

Is it just me, or is it literally impossible to focus on the blue words in stag's post? Not meant as a dig at you at all, stag, just found it amusing that it's actually IMPOSSIBLE for me to focus on them!

I think optical fudge-uppery like that is wicked cool.

yeah its weird.. if I move my head the blue letters follow..

[The Chase]

[intel]

HOWEVER, he's actually composing and arranging every single part on his own--not borrowing a loop that someone else made, with everything worked out already.

I hate to get involved in this thread again, but I do need to point out that this statement is false. composers are forever borrowing themes, progressions and cadences from previous composers, contemporaries and (what, back in the day, passed for) popular music. they weren't "loops", but they were pre-written and established pieces of music that a composer could use to round out their compositions. and to get specific with the topic of drum loops, how many times have you heard the same timpani line in classical music? it was committed to paper (or parchment) at some point by someone, but he wasn't the first person to use that drum line in a composition and zombie jesus knows he wasn't the last.

don't deify classical composers because of their status. they, too, were known to borrow from other composers when the need arose. whether they were writing it down in notation or otherwise, the concept is the same.

[Hovmod]

don't deify classical composers because of their status. they, too, were known to borrow from other composers when the need arose. whether they were writing it down in notation or otherwise, the concept is the same.

So to you, Mahler and Moby are equals?

[stag]

HOWEVER, he's actually composing and arranging every single part on his own--not borrowing a loop that someone else made, with everything worked out already.

I hate to get involved in this thread again, but I do need to point out that this statement is false. composers are forever borrowing themes, progressions and cadences from previous composers, contemporaries and (what, back in the day, passed for) popular music. they weren't "loops", but they were pre-written and established pieces of music that a composer could use to round out their compositions. and to get specific with the topic of drum loops, how many times have you heard the same timpani line in classical music? it was committed to paper (or parchment) at some point by someone, but he wasn't the first person to use that drum line in a composition and zombie jesus knows he wasn't the last.

don't deify classical composers because of their status. they, too, were known to borrow from other composers when the need arose. whether they were writing it down in notation or otherwise, the concept is the same.

Well certainly it´s true .
when listenning to barroque music or classical ,ther are pieces that seem written all by the same dude.
Why because of very strict rules about composition.
it seem the police is back again to tell me how should i get my sounds.
I can se the day : "Do you want an instrument??? Invent it."

[munchkin]

don't deify classical composers because of their status. they, too, were known to borrow from other composers when the need arose. whether they were writing it down in notation or otherwise, the concept is the same.

So to you, Mahler and Moby are equals?

Is he saying that? I don't think so! But if you want to read that into the point he's making so that you can polarise this debate then that's your choice.

The point being made is that we all stand on the shoulders of composers and musicians who have gone before us. Originality comes about when we use what's gone before and mix it into something new.

Are Mahler and Moby comparable in musical genre? No one in their right minds would ever make that suggestion (and no-one has.) It's a bit like comparing ragtime with Eno - such a daft comparison! But looking at the techniques that are used to create different genres of music will reveal more similarities than craftist, locked into their world of musical snobbery, would like to admit.

[opiadream]

I can always count on threads like this for at least one 'save-worthy' picture
thanks

[munchkin]

Are Mozart and Mahler equals?

That's a tricky one for all you craftists to answer.

If you say 'no' then how do you justify this? They use similar methods to compose, notate and orchestrate.

If you say 'yes' then how do you account for the difference in prestige and popularity?

Even when taking examples from the same genre of music it's impossible to compare without introducing cultural bias and personal preference. And all this anti-loop snobbery is just good old fashioned cultural bias and personal preference in operation.

[mayan]

I haven't followed this thread very carefully, as I believe that -as an ahtist- I'm entitled to use almost anything and everything that furthers my creativity. But I would like to know whether the the "loops are bad, mmmkay" people would encourage people to not use instruments like Stylus RMX...as they are based too much the work of others? How about the sample-based synths or even the wave-table and vector synths? I can just think of all those developers and sound-designers (oooops!! I use some presets sometime, arrrghh ) cramming all those good sounds in there. Of course, I should be designing my own synths too, I guess.

I just realized as well that many of my left-hand figures when I play blues on the pianner have been stolen wholesale from countless blues players. Ackkk - and I always loved playing the blues too. Oh well...

[Lunatique]

on what fantasy island would a scenario like that occur?
do you honestly believe that it's possible to make a track out of pre-made loops whilst turning the mute button on and off and have it sound like something more than a bunch of loops going on and off?

maybe I'm taking crazy pills but I think if that awesome guitar riff kept repeating with no variance I would start to catch on that it was a loop.

Ahhh, but then we'd be talking about good and bad ways to use loops, and as we all have seen and heard, there are some very uncreative "looptists" out there who, really just don't know any better or can't do anything else other than matching BPM and pitch and turn mute on and off. I remember when Acid first came out, all of a sudden everyone was a musician and composer, and mp3.com was filled with all kinds of crap. I don't think people are that clueless about loops anymore today, but those days of early Acid users left a horrible impression on me and caused me to not like loops. They were the culprits.