* "It was the dawn of the third age of music..."
Composing problem
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- KVRAF
- 2285 posts since 20 Dec, 2002 from The Benighted States of Trumpistan
Howdy. My contribution to this flood of good advice is to study and practice techniques of motivic variation -- yes, this is a "classical" technique, but it occurs in tribal and folk musics of all types as well. Get a book of traditional folk songs (shameless plug for my pan-British and Croatian roots) and feel how they work simple material into sublime art. Study Beethoven and Bach and Stracynski* (err, Stravinsky). Any standard book on composition will be of value; I like Siegmeister's Harmony and Melody because of its practical nature and pan-musical sources, but anything will do.
* "It was the dawn of the third age of music..."
* "It was the dawn of the third age of music..."
Wait... loot _then_ burn? D'oh!
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- KVRAF
- 25036 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
o.k. - I understand this...cron wrote:My own attitude towards saving stuff is highly personal, granted. I always threw everything away because it was never good enough. Getting into the habit of saving stuff every time got me out of the habit of routinely chucking it out. Munin's words on throwing almost everything he/she did away really struck a chord.
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- KVRist
- 192 posts since 18 Apr, 2002 from In The Middle Of A SoundPicture
I agree with you jens, in the past i had an obsession about saving everything! i was affraid to lose what i had done, even if it wasnt good or finished, it could be anything, i just had to save, i still struggle with not saving so many versions, its a sick f**king behaviour..jens wrote:I think that's one of the biggest mistakes and biggest problems about composing - the idea that everything should be kept and that it must be saved for not losing it - this attitude is killing creativity - don't be afraid to throw something away and don't think every little melody must be saved and transformed into a track/songcron wrote:One of the most important things you can do is to save everything, and I mean everything.99% of my tunes end up to be 1:30 sketches that I in the end just toss away because after making the initial melody, I don't know how to proceed.
It's difficult to get into the habit if you already have a habit of quitting your sequencer and hitting 'don't save' to remove the memory of that 20 second false start you've just created. If you're already in the pattern of throwing stuff away at the end of your session, then every time you open your sequencer you're bracing for disappointment before you even put down a note.
No matter how shit you think something you've made is, save it. No really, save it! Each and every time you quit your sequencer, save!
Subtle, eh?
The ability to improvise is one of the biggest virtues when creating music - just play around with the harmony, try this and try that but don't be afraid about losing what you've created - when the time comes you will have gained something like a 'toolbox' from which you can apply the right tool in the right moment - and everything you ever played or just hummed or whistled or maybe even just hummed in you mind is still there within you...
When I'm playing around with a guitar or a synth (or a bas-guitar - whatever instrument) it happens very often that I come across licks or melodies which I think are worth to be transformed into a song -but I only do it when I'm in the mood of creating a song - and often I'm not - I just want to play around...
- but I don't need to keep it anyway because my toolbox is huge
i think that you should only save when you have something to save, ect if the song takes another turn which has potential!
too much saving is not good! its a thing that can sidetrack you and occupie your mind! when composing its not good to think too much, at least not about other things than the music.. at least for me..
saving just cause i made a EQ adjustment is something i try to avoid nowdays, or things like that.. its a compulsive behaviour!
dont be compulsive be repulsive
LaterZzzz......
A fellow of the strangest mind in the world
A fellow of the strangest mind in the world
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- KVRAF
- 3508 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
Not quite what I meant, but a fair point. I get the impression that Munin never saves, let alone after each tiny EQ boost.Ackelito wrote:I agree with you jens, in the past i had an obsession about saving everything! i was affraid to lose what i had done, even if it wasnt good or finished, it could be anything, i just had to save, i still struggle with not saving so many versions, its a sick f**king behaviour..jens wrote:I think that's one of the biggest mistakes and biggest problems about composing - the idea that everything should be kept and that it must be saved for not losing it - this attitude is killing creativity - don't be afraid to throw something away and don't think every little melody must be saved and transformed into a track/songcron wrote:One of the most important things you can do is to save everything, and I mean everything.99% of my tunes end up to be 1:30 sketches that I in the end just toss away because after making the initial melody, I don't know how to proceed.
It's difficult to get into the habit if you already have a habit of quitting your sequencer and hitting 'don't save' to remove the memory of that 20 second false start you've just created. If you're already in the pattern of throwing stuff away at the end of your session, then every time you open your sequencer you're bracing for disappointment before you even put down a note.
No matter how shit you think something you've made is, save it. No really, save it! Each and every time you quit your sequencer, save!
Subtle, eh?
The ability to improvise is one of the biggest virtues when creating music - just play around with the harmony, try this and try that but don't be afraid about losing what you've created - when the time comes you will have gained something like a 'toolbox' from which you can apply the right tool in the right moment - and everything you ever played or just hummed or whistled or maybe even just hummed in you mind is still there within you...
When I'm playing around with a guitar or a synth (or a bas-guitar - whatever instrument) it happens very often that I come across licks or melodies which I think are worth to be transformed into a song -but I only do it when I'm in the mood of creating a song - and often I'm not - I just want to play around...
- but I don't need to keep it anyway because my toolbox is huge
i think that you should only save when you have something to save, ect if the song takes another turn which has potential!
too much saving is not good! its a thing that can sidetrack you and occupie your mind! when composing its not good to think too much, at least not about other things than the music.. at least for me..
saving just cause i made a EQ adjustment is something i try to avoid nowdays, or things like that.. its a compulsive behaviour!
dont be compulsive be repulsive
Guess I should rephrase. When you quit your sequencer in frustration because you feel as though you've failed, for the umpteenth consecutive time, have your save finger handy. You'll never break the cycle otherwise.
Figuring out healthy save patterns comes in later.
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- KVRAF
- 25036 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
towards whom is that directed?ancoats wrote:Well, I'm a classically trained pianist, who has run outta melodic ideas. Seriously, if you wanna try collaborate, pm me.
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- KVRAF
- 3588 posts since 13 May, 2004 from montreal
Try going atonal for awhile and see where it goes...ancoats wrote:Well, I'm a classically trained pianist, who has run outta melodic ideas.
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- Boss Lovin' DR
- 14312 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire
Sounds like you got a few wee problems with arrangement there.
A few simple tricks o the trade that can sometimes help you get out of a rut;
Try reversing/mixing up the chord sequence, obvious as hell but amazing how many people never do it.
Transpose your strings/guitar/whatever bit up an ocatave to for a section to lift it.
Use a melody/chord sequence from one instrument on a different one; e.g. play yer strings melody on the piano etc.
Use 'subtractive' sequencing; get your most dense pattern with all the instrumnts playing then seperate it into it's elements and build it up slowy from the start by adding them one by one and subtracting for breakdowns/variations etc. Works for all kinds of stuff ,not just dance music.
Use effects creatively as part of the arrangement. don't just slap a reverb on something and forget about it, you can make a part a lot more interesting in it's own right by dynamically altering the effects on it. The obvious one here is the old distortion on/off a la Nirvana etc, but you can do it with reverb,delay, modulation etc too.
Err, I'm sure I can think of a few more, but I'm going to get pissed now....
A few simple tricks o the trade that can sometimes help you get out of a rut;
Try reversing/mixing up the chord sequence, obvious as hell but amazing how many people never do it.
Transpose your strings/guitar/whatever bit up an ocatave to for a section to lift it.
Use a melody/chord sequence from one instrument on a different one; e.g. play yer strings melody on the piano etc.
Use 'subtractive' sequencing; get your most dense pattern with all the instrumnts playing then seperate it into it's elements and build it up slowy from the start by adding them one by one and subtracting for breakdowns/variations etc. Works for all kinds of stuff ,not just dance music.
Use effects creatively as part of the arrangement. don't just slap a reverb on something and forget about it, you can make a part a lot more interesting in it's own right by dynamically altering the effects on it. The obvious one here is the old distortion on/off a la Nirvana etc, but you can do it with reverb,delay, modulation etc too.
Err, I'm sure I can think of a few more, but I'm going to get pissed now....
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- KVRian
- 659 posts since 29 Feb, 2004 from Toronto
Saving everything can be good, if you clean the crap away later (so as not to become distarcted by it). I often do little bits, only to say "nah". Chances are I save it anyway, and within a couple of days go back and listen. If I still think "nah" then "nah" it is and it gets trashed. Sometimes several little bits will somehow fit into one full song (they are all from my mind afterall).
The subtractive sequencing idea is a good one, for quick results. There are many compositional tricks used by folks that write on deadlines and need quick inspiration, such as equal scale division, atonality and so on... I'm sure there must be sites with tips on these things (if you know what you are looking for).
Often times I find drawing my song on paper first will help. By this I dont mean notation etc... just a shorthand style that includes a rough layout of where sections (verse/chorus or break down/freakout...whatever) will most likely occur. This way I know where I am going (focus). I will also draw little lines sloping up or down to show tension and release (a fundemental need in writing any stlye of music...this could be from note to note ala music theory...or from section to section ala compostion/arrangement). I would show you what I mean but dont know how to put a picture of it here. Hope I dont confuse anybody.
Sometimes its a good idea to back away and spend time just relaxing to your fave cds, soaking them in on every level (nice lighting, comfy recline and no distractions). Maybe after a couple of days (weeks?) you will feel refreshed/inspired, and be able to try working without the frustration that has built up.
This is a fact that most people face and many get past it in thier own way and to thier own satisfaction. Dont disspair, frustration and flailing around for inspiration only add to initial issue. All in good time....
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The subtractive sequencing idea is a good one, for quick results. There are many compositional tricks used by folks that write on deadlines and need quick inspiration, such as equal scale division, atonality and so on... I'm sure there must be sites with tips on these things (if you know what you are looking for).
Often times I find drawing my song on paper first will help. By this I dont mean notation etc... just a shorthand style that includes a rough layout of where sections (verse/chorus or break down/freakout...whatever) will most likely occur. This way I know where I am going (focus). I will also draw little lines sloping up or down to show tension and release (a fundemental need in writing any stlye of music...this could be from note to note ala music theory...or from section to section ala compostion/arrangement). I would show you what I mean but dont know how to put a picture of it here. Hope I dont confuse anybody.
Sometimes its a good idea to back away and spend time just relaxing to your fave cds, soaking them in on every level (nice lighting, comfy recline and no distractions). Maybe after a couple of days (weeks?) you will feel refreshed/inspired, and be able to try working without the frustration that has built up.
This is a fact that most people face and many get past it in thier own way and to thier own satisfaction. Dont disspair, frustration and flailing around for inspiration only add to initial issue. All in good time....
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Reverbnation
see ya 'round...
see ya 'round...