Fruity or Reason

Audio Plugin Hosts and other audio software applications discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

A lot could probably be done with reason. I probably would not. case study samplers. All I ever used NN-XT was for loading a nice sample bank. Never really needed to tweak anything in there, maybe a little ADSR, if at all.
That exactly meets my point about samplers:


There are 2 tasks that people want to do:

-quickly play with a single sample they have/found (and that's what our quick FL sampler channels achieve)

-load soundbanks as instruments and play with them


That's why I don't much consider 'simple' samplers like NN-XT, that is, samplers with no in-depth features but easy editing.
I don't think that many people:
1. have loads of multisamples on their HD that aren't in a bank already
2. can record noise-free samples, or have the time for, or have the real instruments to record (if they do, they don't need a soundbank of them)
3. want to bother re-doing a bank each time

To me, it's a huge job to craft a soundbank properly. Huge job in a quality recording, huge job in the looping & articulation. If that job is done properly, all you need is to load that soundbank and you don't need/want to see what's inside.

So to me a sampler should come in 2 parts: a simple player on the host side, with just the minimum controls like ADSR & filter, and an in-depth, complex editor, aimed at the few who will create soundbanks.
Merging both is a suicide, because if NN-XT had the features of the SoundFont specs, it'd need quite a lot of pages to edit them all, and no one would use them. So wanting an editor built-in a sampler can only imply reducing its amount of features.


As for the soundfont player in FL, yes it has some problems, but you must see it as a VSTi, as it was licensed, and we can't do much about it (except removing it).
I'd like to do a sampler, but the reason I won't is that I don't find it interesting to start one with the same goal as NN-XT, I'd prefer a bigger project, which would of course take more time.

Post

First of all, I happen to think that the NN-XT is a superb sample player, the element of Reason I most miss, and if it was a VSTi I'd buy it no question.
headquest wrote:
dhanjit wrote:
headquest wrote:1] Not quite sure what you mean about NN-XT
Maybe you should do some research then. There's a clear difference between NN-XT importing a sound font and the FL Soundfont player loading it.
THat's interesting. Perhaps you could be so kind as to help my research by pointing me in the right direction? (although as NN-XT is a powerful sampling engine in itself I rarely use soundfonts, but would like to have the opportunity when I want to. Titanic is great!
headquest wrote: 2] FL Soundfont player couldn't load or import. It simply sank the computer leading to a reboot. Not impressive.
The LiveSynth engine that the FL Soundfont player uses appears to load the entire soundfont into memory. I have 1Gb of RAM and the Titanic sf2 loads fine for me. One larger soundfont used to crash Fruity (but not my system), so I've used Awave Studio to seperate out the individual instruments.
I only have 512 Mb RAM, hence the system crash. But as I say no probs in NN-XT... and soundfonts sound fine to me in NN-XT, so you really will have to enlighten me as to the difference!
Here's a couple of clues:
Reasonbanks had to put out an update to their proVitamin soundfont to "solve some slips that the Reason's soundfont import makes - in general it works well, but sometimes it may surprise us with confusing things"
v2.03 of Extreme Sample Converter included the following fix - "Conversion to SoundFont has been changed to assure compatibility of exported SoundFont files with Reason NN-XT sampler"

Post

braj wrote:
headquest wrote:I only have 512 Mb RAM, hence the system crash.
I have to say that just because you don't have enough RAM is no excuse for the app crashing. :shock: Isn't there any error handling, like 'FL Studio cannot load the selected soundfont. Your computer may be low on memory'. Crashing in this instance is unacceptable.
A fair point.

Post

sidhu wrote:I can use the SFZ player in FL, right ?
Yes :D

Post

braj wrote:
headquest wrote:I only have 512 Mb RAM, hence the system crash.
I have to say that just because you don't have enough RAM is no excuse for the app crashing. :shock: Isn't there any error handling, like 'FL Studio cannot load the selected soundfont. Your computer may be low on memory'. Crashing in this instance is unacceptable.
Your right Braj. No, FL provides no warning of that kind, which really I agree it should under the circumstances.

Post

sidhu wrote:I can use the SFZ player in FL, right ?
Yes, because it is VST.

But I found that SFZ also couldn't handle the Titanic soundfont (although unlike FL it didn't crash my system. I was running Sfz in Tracktion at the time I tried this). Perhaps this is all to do with the - to me - mysterious difference between "loading" and "importing" a soundfont.

I'm no expert on soundfonts. All I can say is that Titanic plays - and can be edited - very nicely in Reason's NN-XT.

Post

headquest wrote:
sidhu wrote:I can use the SFZ player in FL, right ?
Yes, because it is VST.

But I found that SFZ also couldn't handle the Titanic soundfont (although unlike FL it didn't crash my system. I was running Sfz in Tracktion at the time I tried this). Perhaps this is all to do with the - to me - mysterious difference between "loading" and "importing" a soundfont.

It's fine for me in FL Studio and other VST hosts.
headquest wrote:I'm no expert on soundfonts. All I can say is that Titanic plays - and can be edited - very nicely in Reason's NN-XT.
Agreed (on both counts :wink:).

Post

sidhu wrote: Big sample banks will be important. tell me, how much does a good V sampler cost in the market, one at par with the NN-xt
If big soundbanks are important to you then I suggest you cast your net wider.

JMC has already confirmed that Image Line are investigating ways to enable FL in the future to cope with your needs - i.e. it can't at present.

And you've already stated that Reason is not for you. Which is fair enough - it doesn't suit everybody, which is why "choice" is a good thing.

I am tempted to recommend that Reason is worth you having simply for NN-XT, but perhaps you really should be looking at something like Kontakt 2 for your sampling needs... either within FL or within Tracktion or eXT, for example.

Also, have you checked out Live 4?

Post

headquest wrote: But I found that SFZ also couldn't handle the Titanic soundfont (although unlike FL it didn't crash my system. I was running Sfz in Tracktion at the time I tried this). Perhaps this is all to do with the - to me - mysterious difference between "loading" and "importing" a soundfont.
Did you select the DFD (direct from disk) option in the SFZ interface, cause if you did not, youre still trying to load the entire bank onto your RAM.

Sidhu

Edit : Cant figure why FL cant impliment the DFD feature, everyone else has...
Last edited by Sidhu on Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Post

headquest wrote: I am tempted to recommend that Reason is worth you having simply for NN-XT, but perhaps you really should be looking at something like Kontakt 2 for your sampling needs... either within FL or within Tracktion or eXT, for example.

Also, have you checked out Live 4?
I did get the crux of Live, but then again, I primarily need something to sequence (and mostly drums and percussions). Unfortunately, i found my musical tallent lacking to be able to fully harness Live's potential.

Sidhu

Post

sidhu wrote:Edit : Cant figure why FL cant impliment the DFD feature, everyone else has...
They're using the LiveSynth engine which appears not to have the DD feature. Although they're also worried about infringing Tascam's patents, they are aware of this limitation and to want to resolve it.

Post

Who invented 'beat-slicing'?
TeeLangSun wrote: I believe the answer is hardware samplers, but I'm not sure. But I'm curious to know what application was using Rex files back in 1994. Possibly also hardware samplers?
You are right TeeLangSun, I was 'beat-slicing' on an Ensoniq EPS in 1989...you kids have no idea.

Carb.

Post

headquest wrote:Thinking about it, another time that the FL crashed my system was when I tried to load the "Titanic" soundfont into the Fruity Soundfont player. The whole system simply ground to a halt, and after waiting awhile I realised FL wasn't about to recover from the ordeal of trying to load a large but excellent soundfont.

By way of comparisson, in Reason the NN-XT sampler loads the whole of the Titanic soundfont in less than a second.

To my way of thinking and working there are simply TOO many ways in which Reason is a better piece of software coding than FL! As a professional musician and teacher I need software that consistently works and does what it claims.

But of course I am using Tracktion/Audition/Live as hosts, so I don't need my Reason to fulfil that role. If you don't already have a top-drawer host your needs will be different.
Then why bother trying to compare Reason to FL Studio?

Reason is great as a tool for sound design. FL is pretty much a complete sequencing environment in which there's nothing stopping you from making a complete song from start to finish, mixed and mastered if you have the skills. Reason doesn't even begin to dream of this kind of ability so why bother with comparing the two? Reason's tasks and capabilities are far smaller than what FL does so if an occasional crash is the price we pay to have power to get "everything" done without going out and buying a few additional programs, then it seems a good deal to me. FL is actually remarkably stable for the vast majority of users and even Reason has a few problems here and there. I have both and I see them both for what they are. Both have their place, but with each update, it gets more and more pointless to make direct comparisons.

Post

As far as I know, neither Reason or FLStudio is renowned for crashing...and if there was a major issue regarding crashes, I think it would have have been sorted by now.

I've loaded sizeable soundfonts into FLStudio without problems but I have a good, reliable pc with plenty of RAM and (as a matter of dicipline) run no other programs while working the studio.
Image

Post

I've been using FL for about 4 years and I've only seen it crash less than 10 times[I think it's lot less than that :)]

Post Reply

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”