Structure of a Dance track - help!

[Hunter]

Hi

I've been dabbling with a tune that is basically a 130 bpm dance track, but I really don't know how the tune 'should' be structured, with respect to convention. I'd like to know as I would like to make the tune as commercially (!) viable as possible. All the trance/ dance I have tends to be on I Can't Believe Its Tarnce Vol 34 stylee compilations, so I never hear a track as a DJ or producer would hear it/make it.

Therefore, can anyone who writes this style or DJs please give me some idea about the structure of a yer common or garden dance tune. Here are some more specific queries:

Should the beat start very early in the tune so that a DJ can begin mixing it in?

How long should the 'guts' of the track be? 3 - 5 mins at a guess?

One big breakdown the norm?

I'm just trying to get a general rule of thumb of the structure of a modern dance tune.

Also, if you were trying to get your tune as a good dmeo tune, would you strcture it differently than this, eg try and get the melody etc in earlier?

Any comments, ideas suggestions, rules of thumb greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Jim

[Kriminal]

Well, if youre making a DJ friendly track, you need mix points. These can be drums (usually just a kick, or minimal drums) or some kind of pad section. A kick section for say 8 bars at the end is good for this. I think its also good to start the track with one instrument, and gradually bring the rest in every 2 bars, until you have got the main guts of the song. That way, the start has some mix points too.

For a breakdown section, say halfway thru, a simle pad part with also act as a mix point.

If you want some ideas, mail me the tune and i'll cut it up to give you my rough idea of how it should be structured.


Depends what kinda DJ is gonna play it tho, not all beat mix, so the pad/breakdown is a good option to cover all your bases

[VitaminD]

which is it? ..are you making a dance song or a trance song?

If you're making trance (and are trying to stick to conventions) let me first say that I think your tempo should be another 5 to 15 bpm faster.. and stick with 4/4..

the stuff you hear on the compliations though is not really accurate (as you know) to the actual songs.. they are mainly 4 or 5 minute radio edits of songs that are 6-10 minutes in length.. basically just like those free sample minipizzas at the supermarket on weekends.. just a taste.

and besides that.. most of the "thats what I call..." type compliations I've come across are the more radio-friendly bubblegum euro stuff anyways.. the fringes of vocal trance at best.

ermm.. there are many older conventions you can use.. long snare builds, break and hit, fx transitions, reverb builds, quick stabs, etc.. might not be the proper names but I think you know what I'm talking about..

my suggestion to you would be to go to www.di.fm and listen to one of the audio streams there.. or search through google for free-full lengthers.. sometimes some producers giveaway some of their songs for free.. its a hunt though.

[intel]

I think you'll need some loops.....

[The Chase]

As a DJ and producer, I recommend 2 minutes of mixing space on both ends of the track.

[Hunter]

Well, if youre making a DJ friendly track, you need mix points. These can be drums (usually just a kick, or minimal drums) or some kind of pad section. A kick section for say 8 bars at the end is good for this. I think its also good to start the track with one instrument, and gradually bring the rest in every 2 bars, until you have got the main guts of the song. That way, the start has some mix points too.

Cool, thats very useful to know, i was wondering if there would need to be some kind of minimal section before it all gets going to allow mixing

If you want some ideas, mail me the tune and i'll cut it up to give you my rough idea of how it should be structured.

Well i dont really have anything solid yet, I have been hesitating to get into the structuring and attention to detail part until I got a better idea of how to structure it. Once you have detailed drum patterns and so on, its a right pain in t'arse moving stuff around again, especially as I do the drums in Rewired FL, so have to change the structure in that, too, as well as in Sonar.

Basically at the mo I have a killer pad section that also is a major part of the tune, and a rudimentary bass from imposcar, and a piano (!) melody part. I think there is a lot of potential with them, so I;ve decided to break away from my usual do-a-tune-in-an-afternoon-for-a-laugh and try and put a bit more effort into my music.

thanks for the ideas

[Bunnyboy]

Theres some good tips on http://www.spinwarp.com

Its geared towards DnB but the tips can be applied to all types of dance music.

I was trying for ages to find the really good tute that they had on there, but I couldnt remember the title of it. its somewhere in there, among with some other great ones as well.

[Hunter]

which is it? ..are you making a dance song or a trance song?

Dance I suppose, not trance as I know trance (astral projection, platipus etc) . It was originally an ambient tune with some tablas for drums, but I took em out and upped the tempo...

If you're making trance (and are trying to stick to conventions) let me first say that I think your tempo should be another 5 to 15 bpm faster.. and stick with 4/4..

Hmm, yeah but I think its more of a downtempo but euphoric (cringes) dance tune than an eyeballs out psy experience...

the stuff you hear on the compliations though is not really accurate (as you know) to the actual songs.. they are mainly 4 or 5 minute radio edits of songs that are 6-10 minutes in length.. basically just like those free sample minipizzas at the supermarket on weekends.. just a taste.

I had a nice pizza tonight...

my suggestion to you would be to go to www.di.fm and listen to one of the audio streams there.. or search through google for free-full lengthers.. sometimes some producers giveaway some of their songs for free.. its a hunt though.

looks interesting, thanks for that!

[Hunter]

I think you'll need some loops.....

Nooooooooo.......

[Hunter]

As a DJ and producer, I recommend 2 minutes of mixing space on both ends of the track.

I thought you were at school .

Two mins, nice one geezer

[Hunter]

Theres some good tips on http://www.spinwarp.com

Its geared towards DnB but the tips can be applied to all types of dance music.

I was trying for ages to find the really good tute that they had on there, but I couldnt remember the title of it. its somewhere in there, among with some other great ones as well.

Nice one. I'll have a butchers at that.

I'm also wanting to get a bit more serious with some d'n'b too

[Ackelito]

best way would be to analyse a dance track that you like, break up the structure to small pieces..

a good way would be to load the track into your sequencer and add hitpoints and create sections.. and then work after that structure! in the end you can make your own changes but you will have the basics right infront of you..

count the beats and bars... ahh you understand!

go make a dance hit now booy!


______

Thanks for the link Bunnyboy

[twister]

There was a lot of good points listed above. I want to add that if you are making a demo for a record company - ONLY make a short 3-4 minute radio cut. Also, make sure to put your catchy hook at the beginning to get their attention. They will not listen through to the middle of the song if they don't like the first 10-15 seconds. Trust me, I learned it the hard way Of course, if you sending it as a demo for a DJ to spin it in a club, you need to have a couple minutes of a beat in the begining and at the end so the song could be mixed in with others.

As for the dance song structure, check out this book "Dance Music Manual": http://www.dancemusicproduction.com - it gots TONS of useful tips, tricks, and production advices.

TW

[VitaminD]

I had a nice pizza tonight...

what toppings?

[VitaminD]

As for the dance song structure, check out this book "Dance Music Manual": http://www.dancemusicproduction.com - it gots TONS of useful tips, tricks, and production advices.

interesting find.. thanks for the link