Sytrus vs Rhino [6 years dead thread bumped; go to page 21]

[tony tony chopper]

you must either be joking, or you haven't got a clue what you are talking about or you are a dirty liar...

Rhino 1 already had a built-in sample bank - but you did know that (I hope).

I guess that you don't want to debate on the feature set then?

Let's then conclude that I'm joking, that rhino sounds 'clearer' or [insert subjective attribute here], or whatever can't be backed up with facts, if it's easier for you.

[shamann]

..which was even worse: it wasn't partly a sampler but a rompler back then.

Now back to my point, if you want to compare the *synthesis* feature set, I'll gladly debate.

What you describe in Rhino, wouldn't that then be called "wavetable synthesis" rather than a ROMpler? Six of one I guess, as I suppose ROMpler is just a veiled word for wavetables, but still a bit misleading.

[jens]

you must either be joking, or you haven't got a clue what you are talking about or you are a dirty liar...

Rhino 1 already had a built-in sample bank - but you did know that (I hope).

sure - and I am in fact king of Atlantis...

[tony tony chopper]

What you describe in Rhino, wouldn't that then be called "wavetable synthesis" rather than a ROMpler?

Wavetable synthesis is (also) another word for rompler.
But normally wavetable synthesis is more used for synthesizers who use banks of (small) shapes as oscillators and morph between them. So it's related.

And I didn't write that it was a rompler, I wrote partly a rompler, instead of partly a sampler as it is now. It was and is still a synthesizer as well of course.
Sytrus also imports single-cycle shapes and lets you edit their harmonics, but it's not really (interesting) resynthesis.

I don't really understand what problem the above crybaby has with it - all I'm saying is that rhino is a synthesizer with sampler features, and that sytrus doesn't have any sampler feature, but more & better synthesis features. And I can back it up with facts for those who are interested.

[serge]

yeah but can sytrus import bitmaps??? I'd like to take my photography to the next level: start importing them into sytrus.

Gol any chance of that happening??

[tony tony chopper]

yeah but can sytrus import bitmaps??? I'd like to take my photography to the next level: start importing them into sytrus.

no but FL's beepmap can, and actually I'm thinking of doing an improved additive synthesizer, which would of course import bitmaps.

I still have this old thing online, showing that you can already do interesting stuff with the beepmap (here loaded with a big texture) and a simple delay:

http://www.flstudio.com/gol/beep.mp3

[shamann]

...that sytrus doesn't have any sampler feature, but more & better synthesis features. And I can back it up with facts for those who are interested.

Well if you're up for it, I'd like to see a full spec comparison.

[serge]

yeah but can sytrus import bitmaps??? I'd like to take my photography to the next level: start importing them into sytrus.

no but FL's beepmap can, and actually I'm thinking of doing an improved additive synthesizer, which would of course import bitmaps.

I still have this old thing online, showing that you can already do interesting stuff with the beepmap (here loaded with a big texture) and a simple delay:

http://www.flstudio.com/gol/beep.mp3

That additive would be cool. I completely forgot about that BeepMap generator, thats a great sound demo for it as well.

Never knew thissounded so good!!

[tony tony chopper]

Well if you're up for it, I'd like to see a full spec comparison

Ok, let's give it a try, feel free to add/correct:

-Oscillators:

Sytrus:

6 bandlimited oscillators

envelope + LFO + kb tracking + vel tracking + mod XY tracking + random + unison tracking on panning + volume + incoming modulation + phase + pitch + plucked dampening

Unlimited multipoint envelopes with curves, double curves, and hold modes, and automatable ADSR.

Envelope preset saving/recalling, step edit mode, tempo-synced & 'global' (inserse of retrigger) mode.

Plucked mode, click removal, DC offset removal.


Rhino:

6 bandlimited oscillators

envelope on volume + waveshaper + pitch + phase

keyboard/vel tracking on 12 features

LFO's?

tempo-synced

morph for equivalent of XY modulation I guess

equivalent of automatable env through env time mod I guess

waveshaper per oscillator


-filters

Sytrus:

3 filter units

envelope + LFO + kb tracking + vel tracking + mod XY tracking + random + unison tracking on panning, volume, cutoff freq, resonance, SVF low, band and high bands, waveshaper mix

waveshaper per filter

8 filter types with all 12 to 24dB modes, built-in oversampling and flat mode


Rhino:

2 filter units

envelope on filter cutoff freq/resonance

kb/vel tracking on 5 features

8 filter types with 12 to 24dB modes, no SVF


-effects

Sytrus:

fully parametric flanger/chorus stacking up to 9 flangers, 3 delay lines and a reverb. Optional side send in FL version.

Oscillators/filters can be sent individually to the effects chain.

3-band param eq


Rhino:

2 effects unit with 18 effect presets, max 4 parameters each

No free routing to them? (I don't know)


-global features

Sytrus

Full-featured unison

matrix/mixer with bipolar levels
up to 64x oversampling

DX7 import


Rhino:

Free FM matrix, not full AM

Unipolar levels in matrix

Built-in step sequencer

Built-in patch browser

DX7 import

[shamann]

Fascinating, thanks Gol.

A few things left out from Rhino: has a combfilter; not full AM but has 2 AM slots and a ring modulator in FX; parametric EQ in FX (you're right FX cannot be routed to separately); assignable master controllers; Scala tuning; no LFOs per se, but each oscillator can be switched to act as an LFO (only available in matrix, no LFOs for filters); FX can have up to 6 controls (depends on effect type).

There is DC offset (on FX page) and there are a few envelope functions you left out, but I'm not the best person to describe those. You also left out the additive stuff for both, and the sample import and the preset wavetables on Rhino. You may not like them but they are extra features on top of everything else. [edit: and filters have -36db mode]

On Sytrus, how do you toggle Plucked mode? And what use is the click remover?

[jens]

Sytrus:



Unlimited multipoint envelopes with curves, double curves, and hold modes, and automatable ADSR.

Envelope preset saving/recalling, step edit mode, tempo-synced & 'global' (inserse of retrigger) mode.




Rhino:


envelope on volume + waveshaper + pitch + phase

what a honest & fair comparison - really - it's obvious how much you're enamoured with the truth & facts...

[gbles]

I think Rhino can do velocity to envelope length, which Sytrus currently doesn't have. Rhino also has multi-point envelopes. It looks like you have the Sytrus features covered, unless you want to throw in the oscillator 1-5 morphing option. I haven't had a chance to play around and see what I can do with it but it could be useful. Sytrus also has 36db filters too.

Lot of features in both.....I don't think either of them are 'toys'.....

[gbles]

how do you toggle Plucked mode?

Its a per oscillator option. Set an oscillator as plucked, then adjust the noise slider, fiddle with the damping envelope etc...

[shamann]

Its a per oscillator option. Set an oscillator as plucked, then adjust the noise slider, fiddle with the damping envelope etc...

Thanks. I see it now. I think I missed earlier because everything is so tiny.

With the group buy on, I'm more interested in the differences between the two, rather than comparing similarities (already own Rhino). So plucked mode has caught my eye.

[gbles]

I've yet to do much with the pluck modelling.....not the kind of sounds I go for. Therefore, its not one of the huge differences for me. What did swing it for me was that almost everything has its own set of modulation sources (envelope, lfo, velocity control, key tracking control, XY source, etc.) It makes Sytrus incredibly powerful, but a little complex too as there is more to manage (if you use it). In my opinion the presets really don't show off what the synth can do as with all of these modulation capabilities there is the ability to add a lot of movement to a sound.