SAMPLITUDE RULES (DAW Summing)

[brianbrian]

placebo effect / slight difference in volume.
Raise the volume 1dB. You won't hear a difference in volume, but the mix will sound "clearer" and "better defined in the low and high end" etc

I don't even touch the Creamware faders. I don't think it has anything to do with volume. Have any of you nay-sayers even tried SAWStudio? That DAW has an obviously different sound quality to it, and i'm not talking about the EQ or dynamics processors. Why don't you try combining several sine waves in a multitrack host (like FL), and make SURE you adjust the volumes. Render the resulting bus sum to file, and repeat this test exactly with another DAW (SAWStudio, Samplitude, etc). Maybe some people can't hear the difference, but if you invert the phase of one track and add it to the other track, do they cancel out completely? Maybe it is not just the summing engine, but something else?

I remember a lot of people were saying things like Warmifier don't even do anything to the signal...

[brianbrian]

By the way, about that 3daudio test, a simple look at this thread:
http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultim ... 9&t=000017

Reveals that people DID hear differences it the DAWs. Of course there were some errors in this test too, so it is definately not the final word in DAW summing comparisons. Also, these differences could be attributing to things other than just the summing.

[brianbrian]

Me again...by the way I don't want to come off sounding like a dick, saying "well you can't hear it, so you're no good". I can accept the fact that I may well be wrong (about the summing differences, not the fact that hosts sound different:)). Just a disclaimer so nobody thinks I have some holier-than-thou attitude.

[aldi]

the soundengineer and the musicans are making the sound not the daw !!!!!!!!

if i make a mix on a mackie analog desk or logic or cubase.... i use the eq's and faders the way, that the final result sounds good to my. on a soundcraft neve, tracktion, samplitude or what ever i do the same so i have to use other eq settings.

can't believe all this discussions for something you only hear, when you listen in direct comparsion. who the hell in real would ever switch between two mixes of the same song.

[egbert]

Nuendo has an "invisible (not adjustable)" limiter on every channel, which contributes to the "Nuendo" sound.

Cubase works the same way. This is their so-called "True Tape" technology. Anyway it seems pointless to try to convince you guys.

No it doesn't. True Tape in Cubase SX before V 3 was OPTIONAL. If you set it to operate, it only worked during recording - it couldn't be applied post recording. In SX3 there is only Magneto as a tape sim - no True Tape.

Did you not read my post?

Test it for yourself - don't just repeat disinformation. Put a VSTi or some recorded audio on a track - insert a gain plugin on that track and boost the output of your audio until it pushes up into the red.

The audio can peak way over digital zero on the output of that track and if the output object it is routed to has the fader at unity gain it will exceed digital zero there too. It will clip and distort when it passes through your soundcard.

=> There is no limiting.

QED

By the way, not all limiters have to exhibit brickwall behavior.

A limiter that does not limit? At all?

Hmmm. A most ingenious paradox.

it would seem that a degree of terminological inexactitude may be in operation in this vicinity.

[RoyNoahJones]

I'll be a bit thick on that
these days, All DAWS are delivering good results, if the public doesn't like the vibe of your music, you won't change their mind by explaning the bus summing thingie that needs your full attention to find the minimal differences, specially if you can be fooled by finding differences between two identical files.

That being said, i suggest to move on and give some full attention to the music, because that's what the audience will have to enjoy at the end.

just my 2cents.

[popsych]

the soundengineer and the musicans are making the sound not the daw !!!!!!!!

if i make a mix on a mackie analog desk or logic or cubase.... i use the eq's and faders the way, that the final result sounds good to my. on a soundcraft neve, tracktion, samplitude or what ever i do the same so i have to use other eq settings.

can't believe all this discussions for something you only hear, when you listen in direct comparsion. who the hell in real would ever switch between two mixes of the same song.

From what i understand your trying to give the it's not the daw but the engineer speech

I agree absolutely in that a mix done by an excellent engineer on an e.g. 16 bit system would wipe the floor with the 32 bit one made by one with no talent. However that same excellent engineer could make it EVEN better by using 32 bits, so that's not a valid point in my eyes.

[RoyNoahJones]

a fabulous Studio in the hands of a bad engineer is just a bad studio , same goes for DAWS.

[popsych]

a fabulous Studio in the hands of a bad engineer is just a bad studio , same goes for DAWS.

But a fabulous studio (or daw), in the hands of an excellent engineer let's his talent manifest to it's full extent.

(These two comments are not meant for SAMP as they apply to all hosts.)

Furthermore I would say that good DAW e.g hard to overload, with PDC can help a lot of rookies which although have the insticts for engineering don't have all the technicalities nailed down.

Finally if my DAW has all these features, i won't have to care if a plugin drifts my audio by 4096 samples and i have to manually delay it and maybe i can try a few more creative ideas in that time, or work more on my sound.

[RoyNoahJones]

a fabulous Studio in the hands of a bad engineer is just a bad studio , same goes for DAWS.

But a fabulous studio (or daw), in the hands of an excellent engineer let's his talent manifest to it's full extent.

(These two comments are not meant for SAMP as they apply to all hosts.)

Furthermore I would say that good DAW e.g hard to overload, with PDC can help a lot of rookies which although have the insticts for engineering don't have all the technicalities nailed down.

Finally if my DAW has all these features, i won't have to care if a plugin drifts my audio by 4096 samples and i have to manually delay it and maybe i can try a few more creative ideas in that time, or work more on my sound.

I'm with ya...you have to feel confortable in an environment who doesn't set obstacles in your creativity...

It's understandable to look after the best tool to reach your goals, but some people are pushing it too far, i wonder if it'll help when they'll find out that the difference between daws after months of researches and recouped informations shows up a difference of 0.00000000095% at -199db ... when it'll be squashed to death by the mastering engineer and their local radios.

just a thought

[lsd]

So what is the deal? Does Samplitude "sound better"? Or sum better, if you will. I currently use Nuendo and have noticed that when I bounce my tracks they seem to loose some definition on the high end and don't seem to be as "punchy". Any thoughts?

[flex42]

Yes, lsd - don't take that much lsd...
1+1=2

[lsd]

Actually 1 + 1 = Lunar Sound Design

[Alan]

I currently use Nuendo and have noticed that when I bounce my tracks they seem to loose some definition on the high end and don't seem to be as "punchy". Any thoughts?

That was alway's a problem for me with Nuendo,internal mixdowns.At first I thought it was improper Pan Law settings but nothing I could do would help.I basically wrote it off as internal 32 bit math errors through the internal summing bus which didn't happen if I mixed all the channels out seperately.I'm very happy with Sonar now.

[stefancrs]

So what is the deal? Does Samplitude "sound better"? Or sum better, if you will. I currently use Nuendo and have noticed that when I bounce my tracks they seem to loose some definition on the high end and don't seem to be as "punchy". Any thoughts?

I've had the same with SX2. It was a slight difference in volume between playing in realtime in cubase and playing back the wav in some other software.