Sytrus vs Rhino [6 years dead thread bumped; go to page 21]

[fuego96]

Not familiar with alternate tunings. However, each oscillator has 8 envelop controls for:

Regular envelop, LFO, Key mapping, Velocity mapping, ModX mapping, ModY mapping, Random and Unison mapping.

Haven't tried Random and Unison but perhaps there might be certain sounds that could benefit from Random for example -- like the attack portion of a Violin or the blow portion of a trombone instrument -- and would allow a greater variety of attack sounds with every keyboard press. Exactly what's needed to simulate alternate bow strokes -- if it does what I think it does.

So basically, one could meticulously come up with alternate tunings using the key mapping envelop. All envelops in Sytrus can be saved to an external file for later reuse, this means that a different patch could have an "alternate tuning" loaded -- however, any microtonal adjustments will have to be done by ear.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys

[envoy]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, I don't know that I'd say you're wrong - the idea is you can have ways to tune the instrument to an endless number of tunings. Some would be still 12 notes every octave, but each note different from what we are 'used to' in regular tuning. Or you could have many more notes in an octave, or fewer. It is a whole other world of music, some of this goes back to ancient times, a lot of it ties in with world musics (arabic, balinese, african music - all these and more use tunings very different from Western 12tet).

I asked because one of the main reasons I went for Rhino was it's ability to import one of the two main file formats for altered tunings. I have picked out the synths that sounded best to me that also could do this kind of thing, and while I believe that Sytrus sounds very nice as well, my musical interests lie a bit outside the norm. For me, this is the most glorious part of virtual synths, as it was nearly impossible to find in hardware synths.

Sorry for the length of reply, and I know most people aren't interested in this sort of thing...

envoy

[fuego96]

Well, in that case, Sytrus doesn't have an "alternate tunings" function per se. But can definitely do what is described in your first paragraph.

I'll do some tests

[JMC]

Hi,

It took a bit longer than expected but the group buy just passed the 100 user limit so the price is at $95 now.

Check it out here :

http://www.sytrus.com

See ya,

jmc (FL Studio)

[envoy]

Well, in that case, Sytrus doesn't have an "alternate tunings" function per se. But can definitely do what is described in your first paragraph.

Unfortunately, not in a practical way. But I'm going to give it more of a test drive, for those times when I fall in step with the "7 white / 5 black" tyranny...

envoy

[fuego96]

Understood. But now you've done it.
You've got me interested

[mgc3003.com]

Wow. These groupbuys are amazing. It's ALREADY at a great price... I'm in. SYTRUS rocks. I can't wait!!

[tony tony chopper]

I didn't see this in Gol's listing: can Sytrus utilize any non-12tet tunings (alternate tuning systems)?

It doesn't read tuning files, but you could do your own tuning manually in a the first pitch envelope.
Some of my presets do that:
-kicks & various percs don't pitch up or down by semitones, but by small increments instead
-some ensembles/loops have the bass wrapping its octave so that it's still bass for any key

I could let sytrus read tuning files, but I rather planned to do that in FL itself, so that all plugins benefit from that.

[envoy]

It doesn't read tuning files, but you could do your own tuning manually in a the first pitch envelope.

I could let sytrus read tuning files, but I rather planned to do that in FL itself, so that all plugins benefit from that.

Probably not the direction your synth will go in, and as I said, there aren't that many musicians like me (yet!) that are working in these areas. I am not a FL-style musician, so that isn't an option, and I need a synth platform that can easily handle importing of many different tuning files; to tune each instrument by hand would be a lot of needless work.

Thanks for the clarification,
envoy

[tony tony chopper]

I was interested by well-tempered tuning (and on a related note, to hermode tuning) because it's true that equal tempered tuning can result in a bad chord ringing.
However, as soon as you start adding a little chorus or unison to your presets, that ringing easily disappears and isn't a problem anymore.

That leaves weird/exotic tunings, indeed not many people have a use for it, although it's perfectly doable in sytrus, but manually.

[envoy]

I was interested...

The subject area is quite a bit deeper than that, but we're agreed that it is a very small segment of people (at this point), and I would never actively pursue a developer who isn't already interested in it in some way. They certainly won't get rich going after this niche market!

envoy

[kodama]

One thing that Sytus does not support that Rhino does;


-Mapping a midi controller to a knob/slider-


There is a list of pre-defined destinations, but they are mostly in MSB/LSB.

Tony/Gol, do you think there's a chance we could at least get that list as NRPNs so we don't have to do a calcuation every time we want to assign a controller?

[tony tony chopper]

Tony/Gol, do you think there's a chance we could at least get that list as NRPNs so we don't have to do a calcuation every time we want to assign a controller?

First as you'd expect, it's NRPN's and not CC's because there wouldn't be enough CC's for all parameters.

Then the problem is that there are 600 parameters, and I don't think you'd like to browse a list of 600 entries all the time.

My advices are:

-use the XY mod, of course it's only 2 params, but you can link them to whatever you want

-assign your MIDI controls to the published VST parameters, normally a good host should be able to do that (what are you using?)

[sdv]

I guess it depends what you're looking for:
Sytrus: intuitive programming / not so great presets.
Rhino: fantastic presets / not-so-intuitive to program.
Really I feel that a different set of comparisons should be made to talk apples-to-apples.
Sytrus should be compared to z3ta+, Kubik or Albino as these are "synthesis" synths.
Rhino should be compared to romplers/samplers such as WusikStation, Crystal or Absynth.

As a Sytrus owner I feel that the synth is coming along but needs a few things;
1)several master soundbanks and
2)a bank of say 200 envelopes used for tunings, arpeggios and such.

[tony tony chopper]

Rhino should be compared to romplers/samplers such as WusikStation or others.

you don't know what you risk by writing things like this in public

several master soundbanks

big tone is working on a preset bank

arksun is working on a new demo song and a couple of new presets

a bank of say 200 envelopes used for tunings, arpeggios and such

Actually, I'm working on a real arpeggiating thing built-in envelopes, to be in a future update. It's 100% envelope-based, and gives quite impressive results, better than note/sequence based ones.

Basically, you can already make gate presets in envelopes, this adds new point modes to set up arpeggiator break points inside envelopes. Unlike arps in the pitch envelope, this really works using held keys.

It will have arp envelope presets, this mainly because I'm surrounded by people who say that Sytrus is too complex, that no one will be able to use it (so I'm glad someone says it's intuitive), so they need prestets anyway.