Sytrus vs Rhino [6 years dead thread bumped; go to page 21]

[tony tony chopper]

but any example of what FM can do all alone with long samples?

[Forever Sun]

but any example of what FM can do all alone with long samples?

I would be able to provide such examples but I haven't got a site to upload to.

What you would find (using SY77 as an example) is anything from a nice extra 'organic' shimmer added to the FM sound,texture, through distortion and of course when pushed to the limit, noise ( as you said). So within this range there's a lot of very interesting sounds to be found.

There is a trick in the AWM (sample) page which takes and feeds the FM sound through the sample-and the sample disappears, leaving a very different version of the FM sound. It's all very usable and musical, I hasten to add, before you jump and say 'it's all noise'.

This is not a complete synth nirvana, as care IS needed since one could easily end up with nasty sounds. ( which for some is a good thing, I suppose).

Having said all this, my favourite technique is to simply mix an FM sound with a sample (in one synth).
Frankly, you should know all this and have used an SY77. I would if I were a developer of an FM synth.(hint, bloody obvious,hint )

Be an adventurer and get that Sytrus sampling.


@ BigTick,
Wicked example there !

[Big Tick]

but any example of what FM can do all alone with long samples?

Remember, with a free-form modulation matrix you are not limited to fm-modulate a sample, you can also use a sample to modulate a sine wave. Here's a quick demo:

We use from this sampled loop (from Daniel's excellent "textures" bank)

to FM-modulate a simple rhythmic pattern playing a sine wave (the pattern is from Rhino built-in envelopes, and is thus tempo-sync'ed)


The resulting sound has the rhytmic quality of the (tempo-synced) pattern, with some of the harmonic quality of the sample loop

You can also get wild things if you play around with the pitch of the sampled loop

And here's an example of the final sound by the time you've added filters and fxs. Not too bad for 5 minutes of Rhino tweaking...

'Tick

[Caleb]

That's cool Mr Tick.
I wasn't that impressed until I heard the final result after filtering and fx.

Nice.

Caleb

[Forever Sun]

Tick's examples are spot on. These are more or less the kind of sounds available with RCM in SY77. But my gosh, are they easier to edit in Rhino !

@Celeb,
I think the non filter sound is nice too. I'm not that familiar with Rhino, but on SY77 the inter-modulation amount of both sounds is adjustable, therefore giving you a more pronounced effect, which in that example isn't very audible.

And the real beauty is, that this extra sizzle/snap which often comes from this technique can be assigned to velocity, as part of the operator( on SY77-- can Rhino do it too, Mr.Tick ?)
A player's dream.

[Big Tick]

And the real beauty is, that this extra sizzle/snap which often comes from this technique can be assigned to velocity, as part of the operator( on SY77-- can Rhino do it too, Mr.Tick ?)
A player's dream.

Of course it can

[tony tony chopper]

I wasn't that impressed until I heard the final result after filtering and fx.

Me neither - it only confirmed that it's not much useful, and that the filters & effects are a lot more important than FM with samples.

[Big Tick]

I wasn't that impressed until I heard the final result after filtering and fx.

Me neither - it only confirmed that it's not much useful, and that the filters & effects are a lot more important than FM with samples.

Well, it brought up some new harmonic content that was interesting once emphasized by the other processors in the signal chain. So for me, it's useful.

'Tick

[Forever Sun]

I wasn't that impressed until I heard the final result after filtering and fx.

Me neither - it only confirmed that it's not much useful, and that the filters & effects are a lot more important than FM with samples.

If you wish, I can provide a more useful example. I just need to email it to you as I haven't got webspace at present.

Modulating FM with samples should be regarded as an exotic addition to filters/lfo/fx and not something that is more important then these. But proof is in the pudding ... and I have a sweet one.

[tony tony chopper]

Well, it brought up some new harmonic content that was interesting once emphasized by the other processors in the signal chain. So for me, it's useful

yes, but absolutely nothing that's not doable using pure synthesis.

I'd forget the effects to demo things like this, because I can make a little tiny bleep in Sytrus and have a great patch with a hall reverb on it - it doesn't mean that the bleep is really useful.

[original flipper]

HI

Why don't you guy's just meet up for a beer or something - perhaps WE will then benefit from a mutual development of a synth that covers a few of the bases that perhaps are lacking elsewhere .

Flipper.

[René]

I'm all up. Who's bringing the beer?

Here's a couple of snippets. I've just used an 'unsinc'ed loop' sample to 'texturize' a standard FM pad.

Without the sample:

http://www.rgcstuff.com/Rhinoid/nosample.wav

Here's with:

http://www.rgcstuff.com/Rhinoid/sisample.wav

The idea of having those movable textures to combine with the FM synthesis is superb. I certainly don't understand the arguments against it.

-René

[jens]

HI

Why don't you guy's just meet up for a beer or something

belgians and french?

[René]

One more, I just discovered. Using a downpitched sample to fm modulate the pad for some 'phasing breath' and animation:

Without the sample:

http://www.rgcstuff.com/Rhinoid/nosample2.wav


Here's with:

http://www.rgcstuff.com/Rhinoid/sisample2.wav


(replace with .mp3 for the compressed versions)

-René

[tony tony chopper]

while the examples aren't bad (I like the dry pads), it more sounds like some background noise mixed with the pads, I mean it's noise, it doesn't really follow the chord. Anyway, for those who like..