KVR Audio

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:50 pm

i've been listening a lot to Apparat, Telefon Tel Aviv and some Aphex Twin lately..and i'm relly interested how to make similar beats.
that glitchy and granular twist is really amazing!

(i guess i'm not the first asking this kinda question, so lets make this post the ultimate answers to everyones Q's.

)

if ure lazy and/or not fancying reading my waffel, skip to the

part.

-----------------------------------------------------
as i understand, those artists use max/msp?
i grabbed the demo of that and didnt understand much, tho i could learn it i needed to.

i am however, somewhat used to Reaktor (as well as Modular in creamware that i also use.)

i've been diving deep into reaktor library, and found some granular thingys..but none really does make any sense in what i want to create. i may be missing the point of them tho?

sure, its cool to put some different efx on my drums and resample that into my host, but i feel that Apparat etc. have total control over the whole envolving beat during the track.. so just put some efx on bits of the drums here and there dont do it really.

i am a proud owner of electronic instruments 2, so i am using Fast FX quite a lot! tho, it got its limits as well. but sure, i use it all the time for some sort of "filler" here and there, wich is purely amazing.

Apparat obviosly made a bank for KRYPT, tho i havent really griped KRYPT yet. perhaps that would be one way of going..dunno..

also heard some rumours about Synthmaker beeing a lot easier and just as good creating this kind of routing etc in..?
-----------------------------------------------------

what i am asking for tbh, is some hints/tips from people already knowing the technique etc.

so, anyone wanna enlighten me?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:54 pm

It wont really matter which you use; they're both complex beasties, and you'll have to get to know how to use them to get what you want.

The best way to pick it up would to start small, with relatively simple creations, whilst also having a look at the structure of the stuff that already exists thats closer to what you want and using that for ideas... or even rip bits out wholesale to use in your own creations. But get used to how things work first... walk then run, Im afraid, there aint no shortcuts...

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:58 pm

sure, i'm all for crawling before walking.

just like to get some hints/tips on what to use, and HOW to use it perhaps, as i'm no beginner in electronic music..

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:05 pm

Well, there's definitely granular stuff for Reaktor available, as you've said but not quite knowing the stuff you're talking about, I couldnt really say much about how to replicate it...
My impression is that there's much more Reaktor stuff being shared out there, so it might be easier to pick up by example. And since you can dive into the structure of things, you can alter/tweak/reuse bits and pieces from more sources to get closer to the sound you want.
On the other hand there are things that MAX/MSP does that Reaktor cant...
I guess you need comments from someone who knows those artists and both packages...

One thing that struck me is that rather than MAX/MSP you could always give Pluggo a go in one of the modular hosts like eXT...

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:10 pm

hm.. yes, pluggo looks nice. i tried the demo for that as well, tho, logic wouldnt even start with it installed, so i removed it pretty quickly.

never tried eXT.. but people seem very pleased with it, so i might give it a shoot.

regarding building in Reaktor, yes.. i could manage to tweak stuff i want (somehow anyways..) but its no point in tweaking when ure not exactly sure what ure tweaking after.

yes, i guess i'm a little confused on the technique, so as said, any hints/tips would be appreciated!

off and checking out eXT now..

cron · Post by **cron** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:22 pm

The learning curve in Max/MSP is much steeper than in Reaktor. Max/MSP is a really interesting program though. The components are so low-level that you really can do anything with it, not just audio related tasks (Reaktor was of course, built from the ground up for audio work). I've seen someone sequence windy-up music boxes with it. The most complicated thing I can build with it is a stopwatch

. I was having difficulty doing some of the maths in my head, so I built a calculator in another patcher to assist.

Reaktor seems much more instantaneous though, and any program which makes Reaktor look instantaneous must be a bitch to learn.

007 · Post by **007** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:32 pm

Lance Vance, did you try audiomulch?
http://www.audiomulch.com/

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:37 pm

no i havent, didnt even think of that tbh.. has it such capabilities?

had no idea if thats the case.

cron · Post by **cron** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:11 pm

I use Audiomulch as my main host. You can't build you own stuff per se, but you can get super-creative with the modular routing chaining other people's stuff together. Its automation capabilities are another great strength. It natively does granular stuff brilliantly too.

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:30 pm

well, as i already use Modular in Creamware, and Reaktor, perhaps i dont need another mmodular thingy..? but then again, i dont know much about max/msp or audiomulch.

cron · Post by **cron** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:36 pm

Lance Vance wrote:well, as i already use Modular in Creamware, and Reaktor, perhaps i dont need another mmodular thingy..? but then again, i dont know much about max/msp or audiomulch.

Mulch is dead easy to learn. If you know anything at all about modular signal chains, you'll pick it up in hours.

007 · Post by **007** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:57 pm

Yes, mulch is easy to learn, versatile, and sounds good. Max is (very)difficult.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:23 pm

The glitchy stuff you are describing can be achieved through a variety of processes. Reaktor and Max/MSP are the most likely candidates, but any modular type of environment can create glitchy patterns. There are hundreds of existing Reaktor ensembles designed to create these types of sounds. Another excellent VST plugin is Buffer Override. Highly recommended!

That said, there really is no "one way" to achieve the desired effect. Think about the result you want to achieve, and start developing a strategy for implementing it. Also, sooner or later, most people resort to hours of tedious micro-editing. This is what makes the difference between a purely random process and a pseudo-random process with aesthetic judgements applied to it. No one wants to sit and listen to pure randomness for any length of time.

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:24 pm

Max/MSP is like a proper programming language, so for the tweaker it might be a little OTT. I'd go with Reaktor - should be equally capable at creating the stuff you're after. And definately get Mulch, quality program!

As for granulation of beats, I reckon experiment with various time stretching programs and also some of those cool buffer plugs. Buffer Override is awsome, as is Cyclotron.

For glitch type stuff try experimenting with bit / sample rate reduction. This would be a start. Also a cool little trick is to open raw files in the audio editor and then sample the little bursts of harsh digital noise. I made some wacky samples using this technique and Waves TransX. Alternatively there are some glitchy digital hits on NI Synthetic Drums.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:29 pm

I think Max looks interesting but it might be a bit more accessible if it had a user library like Reaktor does. The Reaktor user library makes it very easy not just to find the sort of instruments and effects you need but to learn how to make your own.

Reaktor or Max/Msp or..?