True-Stereo-Side-Chaining in Cubase SX2 !!

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If anyone interested how to do it :)
Detailed description of "True Stereo Side-Chaining" with
Voxengo Crunchessor in Cubase SX2:
(testet with Crunchessor1.6 und Cubase SX2.2.039):
==========================================================
The following example will use a kick drum track to duck/compress a bass line track:
1) Create a Quadro group (L,R,LS,RS).
2) Route the bass track to the Quadro group.
a) Open the SurroundPan window in the bass track by double-click on the pan-view in the mixer.
b) Here you must set the Mode Mo./St to Y-Mirror (By default it is set to Mono-Mix).
c) Set the grey panning balls in the SurroundPan window to 100% left and right
and pan it to L/R. This means the L-ball sits at top-left, the R-ball sits
at top-right in the SurroundPan view.
3) Route a send-slot of the kick track to the Quadro group.
(Of course you can route the kick track directly to the Quadro group,
but you won't hear the kick drum at the stereo output bus in this case)
a) Set Pre-Fader switch to ON (the "at" symbol).
(It is necessary to retain the control over the volume slider for the kick track)
b) Set the Send-Amount slider to 0 (CTRL left click on the slider).
c) Change the view of the send-slot to "Routing" (little window above the send slots).
d) Open the SurroundPan window by double-click the (now visible) pan-view in the send slot.
e) Do the same as in 2b)
f) Set the grey panning balls in the SurroundPan window to 100% left and right
and pan it to LS/RS. This means the L-ball sits at bottom-left, the R-ball sits
at bottom-right in the SurroundPan view.
4) Insert crunchessor in an insert-slot of the Quadro group
Start with the preset "Club is pumping" (or pull the Drive-knob to maximum)
in Crunchessor to see/hear the effect.
Choose a Side-Chain channel in crunchessor (in this case "SC: 3+4").
Leave the Crunchessor window open to see the effect via the gain reduction meter:
When the kick drum sets in, the bass track will be ducked/compressed according to the
compressor settings applied to the plug-in.

You can do this the same way with 2 mono tracks, although I think you could leave
the Mode Mo./St in the SurroundPan views to "Mono-Mix". Experiment a bit !

Addition: There's also another "quick" way to do side-chaining with Quadro Output-Bus instead of Quadro-Group:
1) Define a new Quadro Output-Bus and there 2 child/sub-busses ("Stereo" and "Stereo (Rs Ls)").
2) Route Bass track to "Stereo" and Kick track to "Stereo (Rs Ls)".
3) Insert Crunchessor in the Quadro bus.
You don't have to fiddle with Pan-Settings with this method but has its disadvantage in SX2
that you don't have further routing possibilities with the Quadro bus.
In SX3 you can define child/sub-busses also for groups (problem solved here).
If you want the description for SX in SX3, go here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106628

If you dont' have Crunchessor, there's a nice freebie for stereo side-chaining here:
http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slid ... tml#sidech

Happy Side-Chaining !
Last edited by PeterL on Thu May 29, 2008 5:19 pm, edited 13 times in total.

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Updated my first post: Do it with Quadro bus instead of Quadro group.

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Can't believe all these steps are required.

In Logic I set up a compressor and choose the input to control the sidechain. Done in 2 seconds.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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Sascha Franck wrote:Can't believe all these steps are required.

In Logic I set up a compressor and choose the input to control the sidechain. Done in 2 seconds.
Yes, it could be done better in Cubase. But at the moment this is the only way to do it in Cubase.
Sorry that the list is sooo long, but it is detailed explained for dummies :D

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Sascha Franck wrote:Can't believe all these steps are required.

In Logic I set up a compressor and choose the input to control the sidechain. Done in 2 seconds.
Which Logic version - Logic 7 on Mac? Does Logic PC support this?

Eg

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shame that any decent compressor then introduces latency - which rather ruins logic'c its ability to work as an effective ducker of a bass drum for example

but at least it's easy to set up :lol:

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It's about time somebody developed a true stereo compressor with sidechain.... It would work a lot better while mastering also... :shock:
Author of : AAMS Auto Audio Mastering System.
www.curioza.com
www.sined.nl

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egbert wrote: Which Logic version - Logic 7 on Mac? Does Logic PC support this?
5.5.1 PC. Internal compressors only, unfortunately (so it doesn't exactly belong into this thread - but as the Slim Slow Slider one was mentioned as well...).
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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Sascha Franck wrote:
egbert wrote: Which Logic version - Logic 7 on Mac? Does Logic PC support this?
5.5.1 PC. Internal compressors only, unfortunately
OK - I knew that you could do this with Logic's own - just didn't think it was possible to route audio to a VST/DirectX plugin inserted into a channel in Logic 5.x.

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ericj23 wrote:shame that any decent compressor then introduces latency - which rather ruins logic'c its ability to work as an effective ducker of a bass drum for example

but at least it's easy to set up :lol:
there are already compressor plugins that sound good and produce minimal (if any) latency. most (if not all) modern hosts support plugin latency compensation (PLC) anyway.
It's about time somebody developed a true stereo compressor with sidechain.... It would work a lot better while mastering also...
there are already a few compressor plugins with "true stereo sidechain input," including Crunchessor, Beatpuncher and Vanilla Compressor. there are also some free ones out there.

perhaps you are unhappy with the implementation of the sidechain input--how it is accessed via the host. this is pretty much a lost cause, unless Steinberg (or whoever owns them) decides to update the VST spec with provisions for sidechaining. as it is, there are no specific tools for accomplishing this, which is why developers "fudge it." Logic have obviously developed their own proprietary plugin API which gives only their plugins access to the internal bussing. If Steinberg were to do something like that with VST, you would start to see easier sidechaining plugins.

== chunk

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Could anyone test it in SX3 (still have SX2), if this works from my first post with Child/Sub-Busses for Groups ? I read it in the SX3 manual that it should work. Thanks.
1) Under "VST Connections" define a new Quadro Group and below 2 child/sub-busses ("Stereo" and "Stereo (Rs Ls)").
2) Route Bass track to "Stereo" and Kick track to "Stereo (Rs Ls)" of the Group.
3) Insert Crunchessor in the Quadro Group.

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Rune from otiumFX (Compadre Beatpuncher!) has published a video tutorial for "True Stereo Side-Chaining" today.
You can donwload it here:
http://otium.hjem.orangenet.dk/mirror/S ... baseSX.rar
Thanks to Rune for this !

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Many thanks for this! Very helpful. I much prefer the "Group" solution to the "Bus" solution, since the latter (to my knowledge) doesn't allow mixdown of the full mix to a single stereo track.

For convenience I recommend setting this up as part of a cubase template, using the last 3 groups for stereo sidechaining (having perhaps 5 groups before them for sub-mixes and fx that need to be sent to sidechaining etc):

(1) Create two stereo group channels (first), followed by a quad group.
(2) Label the first stereo group "sidech key_in" and route it to LS/RS of the quad group (see PeterL's posts for details).
(3) Label the second stereo group "sidech target" and route it to L/R of the quad group.
(4) Label the quad group "" (you will never route tracks here directly). Place your stereo sidechain plugin in one of the inserts, but shut it off until you need it in a song.
(5) Give all audio channels in your template a send to "s sidech key_in" as detailed in 3a-b, but switched off (use copy paste or duplicate track functions :)
(6) File/save new template

Then choose this template when you create a new song.. always ready for pumping! Just route the track you want ducking to "sidech target" and activate send to "sidech key" on the kick-track etc..

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Thanks el davo. Very helpful.

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most (if not all) modern hosts support plugin latency compensation (PLC) anyway
alas logic isnt one of them - the moment it's on a bus it is not compensated for - and that means the sidechain is not compensated for

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