KVR Audio

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:04 pm

If you have EnergyXT I uploaded a sampler patch which was a double bass - you'll find it in the XT forum.

mgreene · Post by **mgreene** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:51 pm

[quote="Markleford"]Another vote for echochamber bass! Finally glad to see this one get the props it deserves.

Tunes of mine featuring it:

Madcap Vegas Caper

Hey Markleford,

That Vegas Caper tune is great - the bass sounds more authentic somehow than most samples on the market. How did you convert it?

BTW: Someone mentioned it - I converted the waves in VS 3.5 and I don't know how to get the samples (and articulations) to map evenly over the keyboard - I just get the unzipped waves literally mapped over the keyboard. I would appreciate some help so I dont have to read the manual

Mike

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:01 pm

mgreene wrote:That Vegas Caper tune is great - the bass sounds more authentic somehow than most samples on the market. How did you convert it?

I mapped it in Reason's NN-XT sampler, laying out the individual samples for the soft notes and the hard notes to appropriate keys. But then I told NN-XT to disregard velocity, but rather alternate randomly between the two overlapping sets (rather than switching on velocity or cross-fading).

Then comes my usual secret (but not so secret) trick: I extend the overlap for each note to the semitone above and below, but still tell the sampler to alternate between any zones that overlap. As such, any note I play will randomly trigger any of 6 different samples. This makes for realistic variety in human playing.

So far as VS 3.5 mapping, can't help you there! But the general premise should apply so long as it can alternate/rotate/round-robin between overlapped zones.

- m

mgreene · Post by **mgreene** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:32 pm

Markleford wrote: I mapped it in Reason's NN-XT sampler, laying out the individual samples for the soft notes and the hard notes to appropriate keys. But then I told NN-XT to disregard velocity, but rather alternate randomly between the two overlapping sets (rather than switching on velocity or cross-fading).

- m

Hi,

Thanks for that

Brilliant and a very good lession regarding what I dont know (and dont even suspect) about the finer points of sampling. Looks like I'll have to read the manual after all.

In any case, it looks like the Demo version CDXtract will make the conversion - which I just did. Figuring out what you said will take somehat longer

Thanks

Mike

bobaudio · Post by **bobaudio** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:57 pm

Markleford wrote:
Then comes my usual secret (but not so secret) trick: I extend the overlap for each note to the semitone above and below, but still tell the sampler to alternate between any zones that overlap. As such, any note I play will randomly trigger any of 6 different samples. This makes for realistic variety in human playing.

So, if I read this right.. you intentionally play occasional wrong notes?

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:05 pm

bobaudio wrote:So, if I read this right.. you intentionally play occasional wrong notes?

No, the notes are still at the correct pitch (thanks to transposing across keys), but they can come from any of a given pool of samples.

For example, if I play a C, the sample could randomly be one of the following:

The C sample, with no transposition
The B sample, transposed +1
The C# sample, transposed -1

So each of those samples, with transposition, will play a C, but they will all sound differently. I could even extend this sample pool another semitone in each direction until the pitch-shifting sounds unrealistic.

If this doesn't make it clear, I'll post a screen-shot of the sampler zone layout tonight.

- m

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:54 pm

Markleford, what are those sweet jazz drums you're using?

steveholt · Post by **steveholt** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:22 am

I just did a really quick sfz mapping for this. It is HERE

Just unzip into the same folder as the samples.

Steve

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:11 am

geoffkhan wrote:Markleford, what are those sweet jazz drums you're using?

Also in the "Believe it or Not" category...

Those drums, most surprisingly the ride, are from the free Reason "Clawfinger" ReFill, which is a metal genre sound kit! The trick with the ride is I alternate between the different strokes and give them a little diffuse reverb all their own (before it's mixed with the rest of the kit) to meld them and give them a "washy" sound, almost like a flat-top ride.

Oh, and the latin perc stuff is from the SampleTankFREE "Bongos and Congas" download.

- m

Shane Sanders · Post by **Shane Sanders** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:13 am

steveholt wrote:I just did a really quick sfz mapping for this. It is HERE

Just unzip into the same folder as the samples.

Steve

Bless you. I'm off to try it out now...

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:14 am

Markleford,

A) Nice tunes. I only listened to one of them before I think. Fine skills!

B) Cool idea to make those patches more lively (and very well working too). Need to try something similar in Kontakt! Maybe "round robin" will be my friend.

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:11 am

Sascha Franck wrote:Need to try something similar in Kontakt! Maybe "round robin" will be my friend.

Unfortunately, there is not as much joy in Kontaktville. The way they set up round-robin between separate layers (rather than just overlapped key zones) makes it a real hassle in terms of GUI-nav. Frustrates me! Grrr! Not impossible, just awkward.

I wish Kontakt had the everything-visible, dead-simple GUI of NN-XT, or that NN-XT had the modulation possibilities of Kontakt. Maybe K2 will fit the bill.

Oh, as a bonus, I also used that technique on this Harmon mute sample set I toyed with releasing.

Thanks for the props.

- m

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:56 am

Markleford wrote: Unfortunately, there is not as much joy in Kontaktville. The way they set up round-robin between separate layers (rather than just overlapped key zones) makes it a real hassle in terms of GUI-nav.

Yeah, I know, group switching in K1 is no fun at all.
I, hm... let's say "heard" that this is going to be way less of a plague in K2

Oh, as a bonus, I also used that technique on this Harmon mute sample set I toyed with releasing.

Oh... nice one (AFAICS with all those FX going).
Now, when and where can we grab that?

Cheers,
Sascha

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:06 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:I, hm... let's say "heard" that this is going to be way less of a plague in K2

Oh... nice one (AFAICS with all those FX going). Now, when and where can we grab that?

It'll be on my site eventually: it's still on The Big List Of Stuff To Do Before I Die, and I'd like to release a few small instruments like that for donations. I'll bump it up a notch on the priority scale, as garret also wanted it. The idea was that I was going to try to build its own player to do that round-robin thing automatically, and then I was going to do it in sfz, and then it got buried on the list by higher priority stuff...

- m

steveholt · Post by **steveholt** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:46 pm

No, the notes are still at the correct pitch (thanks to transposing across keys), but they can come from any of a given pool of samples.

Following Markleford's approach I updated the sfz mapping with 2 or 3 rotating samples per note (so none was more than a semitone transposed). The zip file now contains the simple and the new version - DoubleBass2.sfz.

Steve

Best free upright/double bass??