It's about the workflow

[Lunch Money]

Not ruined at all. Things are very obvious once you've seen them. The fact that it wasn't readily obvious still strikes me as a usability issue with this aspect of the program, and indeed with the program in general.

Too many of the buttons are improperly labeled or put into non-intuitive locations. Worse yet, I find the entire GUI fairly 'fiddly' with small-tastic buttons abounding. Other people will say that the small buttons give more screen real-estate, but I find the fixed-size nature of the program to be more limiting than liberating, and the 'free' space still feels like a prison.

Now, all of that is workflow- and GUI- related, which I'm open-minded enough to know doesn't interfere with the newfound power you have unlocked for me. I'm thrilled that I may indeed be able to accomplish what I wanted to accomplish, though I haven't given it the run-through yet. Dog needed attention, and I think the girlfriend'll be here before I can do it, too.

Cheers for the pointers!
Greg

[Lunch Money]

NICFIT! Not a waste, not a waste! Er... at all!

Send them my way and I'll turn them into a PDF tutorial that we can put on one of the tutorial sites.

Greg

[NicFit]

ok



First let's delete the default layer, it's no use to us for sliced loops...




right click in the sound tree and add a "Slicer"...




Here you can set the "root" note for this slicer...this note will be the note which plays back the whole loop in sync with the host tempo... this note will not be included with the MIDI file export of the slices....




you can click this MIDI learn button....




and the "MIDI Learn" box will popup waiting for you to hit a key on your controller....talk about "workflow"...it doesn't get any easier that that




you can also click and drag vertically to set the root note....




now back to our sound tree, right click the slicer and "insert sample"....




browse to the loop you want sliced....




notice the individual slices will start at C#-2.... C-2 is reserved for triggering the whole loop from a single key.




...slice up the loop however you choose...




ta-da!




click and drag the "Export" button to your hosts track...(again "workflow"...couldn't be easier)




now make a mental note of the last slice trigger note from this loop....we will use the next available note for our next loop...




Add a new "Slicer" to your sound tree....




set the root note for this new Slicer to the next available note(in this case it is C-1)




Follow the same procedures for this new loop and drag it to the same track in your host...you can see here the second loops trigger notes occupy a seperate group of keys...



Now let's set the 2 loops to different MIDI channels...



First let's give each slicer a unique name...




...maybe not so "unique"




Enable the "Multi" section here...




expand the multi section here...




let's rename the default multi...(optional)




...Add sound




by default the sound added will be the first one listed in our sound tree. The box that say "All" is refering to the MIDI channel the chosen sound will respond to...set it to "1"




Add a new sound to our multi...




click the "..." button next to our new sound and...




choose another loop...




set this new loop to a different MIDI channel...



....That should get you started.

any questions?


nF

[Caleb]

Thanks NicFit - When I get to the Slice Mapping part of the manual, this will be handy to refer to.

Also guys - remember that I'm trying to document all of the Sampler at the moment as part of the next manual update. It should be enough to describe both the creation of "normal" samples and beatslicing.

I'm tossing up whether there should be a Quickstart guide on both also at the start of that section - but if I do it, I'll do it after all the important reference info is complete.

If there is a feature in EnergyXT that you feel is not documented at all within the manual feel free to let me know using the email link in my posts. I want the manual to be up-to-date as much as anyone else.

I won't promise immediate documentation of everything - that's impossible given it's something I do in my spare time. However, I can promise to put it on a to-do list to cover off when I can.

Remember this is a reference manual though. It's probably not going to have alot of focus on tutorials.

Caleb

[M'Snah]

...

[silicon/silicium]

anby workaround to import a sampler prest in a sublayer?? or do I have o think about my structure before loading any sample??

[Caleb]

anby workaround to import a sampler prest in a sublayer?? or do I have o think about my structure before loading any sample??

At this point I would think about your structure before loading a sample personally.

At the moment within that "Sounds" section you have limited organisational options. No drag and drop between layers and the "Move Up" option seems very limited in scope.

I'm sure this will be looked at down the track - but until then - plan your instrument before you start.

Caleb

[scuzzphut]

NicFit - that was a great walkthrough - i learned something today

As for workflow in Ext. Greg - I feel your pain.

It took me several attempts at Ext to finally getto the point where I could achieve what I wanted without stopping every 10 minutes for research

Now that I know it enough...
(and I'm sure that there is at least 50% of the functionality that i have yet to discover - eg I only found out last week that I can add an arpegiattor or chord comp to the midi tracks in the sequencer )
... I love it to bits. I can even put up with the poor palette of audio features, because I know they're coming soon

Ext is a wonderful place. Stop by again, sometime

[Noox]

Always the same with those French guys... so easily upset

AAAAAAAaaaaaaarrghhhhhh...

HansM, you're driving me to despair.

[Lunch Money]

NicFit, thanks a bunch. I'll throw that all into a PDF for future download by somebody in need. I can't help but respond to the "workflow couldn't be easier comments", though. I don't offer this breakdown of events as a way to slight your contribution here, which is time and energy spent that could have been spent on your own music or something else. I only offer it as a way of explaining why I continue to feel, even after this tutorial, that eXT has very little workflow for the average dude (me). So, disclaimers aside, here are my opinions:

- Since the initial layer isn't needed, why is it defaulted? Who would know to delete it at the beginning?

- It's not obvious or documented that the "root note" will play back the entire loop, synced. It seems like-- the root note! Now, when you actually slice the beat, it's clear which note matches to which slice, but it's still NOT clear where that supposed root note went to, that sneaky little pest.... Now, that's just splitting hairs, because regardless of where it may or may not have gone, exporting the MIDI would still set you up with correct playback.

- What the hell is the note selection box doing over THERE, though? As I said, once you know where it is, it's obvious, so it's not a concern. But before it was pointed out to me, I kept thinking it should have been there in the same area on the left, where the slicers/layers are listed, and also that there should have been a right-click menu or slider on that same area that would allow you to set root. The root should also be displayed and editable RIGHT NEXT TO those layers, just like once the loop gets sliced. Why not be able to click and drag the note assignment right there? (Ie. where it says "slice (C#)" why not be able to set the "C#" to whatever else? And then above that where it says "Slicer", why not have a root assignment box?)

It may be tough to remember back that far, or you may have been lucky enough to have seen that little root-note-setting window right away, but let's face it-- it's really not in the most intuitive spot at all, and I wasted a lot of time looking for it. Why so much time? Because usually a slice (rather than the whole slicer) would be selected while I was looking, which is no surprise since my first thought wasn't to set a root but to drag a loop. And once a loop is dragged, it is highlighted as a slice and the little root-setting-box disappears. That's anti-workflow.

- The MIDI learn for root assignment isn't really useful, so that hardly counts toward workflow points. I suppose if you were triggering with a non-note button it would be handy. Can you assign non-note cc's to it? If so, I guess that could be cool.

- Regarding dragging the export button - that option was not available in the 1.29 stable release, which means that somebody needs to be using beta software in order to have that functionality. I have to use "SMF" and then manually select directories, followed by dragging and dropping from Explorer for it to work. Also, it's an "Export" button, so not everyone will try dragging and dropping from such a small, unassuming, and only partially-labelled button. (I admit, I would have tried on my own and discovered d'n'd, but not everyone will since it's not completely obvious).

That's just the beginning, when you actually CAN say that if you're familiar with eXT, the workflow isn't so bad. Although I'm disagreeing still (and hopefully explaining why), I'm willing to admit that since I now see where the things are assigned, it'd be a quick procedure up until this time. My original point, though, was that I shouldn't have had to research in order to find those buttons... they should have been in a manual (which I really think is necessary for this product), in a "helpfile", tooltips (well, I usually hate tooltips, so maybe not), or even just by having a more thought-out layout and design.

Moving along, though, you really can't claim the rest is easy for workflow:

- Rename the slicers requires a menu? Why not just click and have it be a textbox?

- Why do I have to enable "Multi" again? What IS a multi? Why isn't it enabled by default if it's important? Why do I have to expand that section? I don't see much for extra functionality that needed to be "hidden" in the first place. Why not have it expanded by default and then shrink it down once it gets busy?

- OK, I see now-- the Multi area is necessary for assigning the different loops to different MIDI channels. Er... why?? Why not just select slicer 1 and set it to whatever channel? Now-- don't get me wrong, I'm forward-thinking enough to realize that it'd be a pretty important window once you start doing really serious instrument patches or setting up one instance of a sampler as a "bank" of different instruments; however-- surely you can see how the whole "Multi" thing wouldn't have been immediately obvious, and nor would knowing I had to go through a whole other set of menus just to trigger 2 samples with different channels be obvious.

- Since I'm already on the subject and not to start a new thread with a new whine-- what's with the teeny tiny edit windows? The loop overview is basically good for one thing-- telling us that the loop has, in fact, been sliced, and allowing us to select individual slices. If that's all it's meant for then fine. Then the individual slice windows at the bottom of the comp-- can anybody really use those to set start and end points with anything resembling precision?


Again, I'm hugely grateful for your time spent-- workflow or not, this adds a very important tool to my arsenal, for which I am indebted to both you and Noox; however, it's still pretty clear to me that the interface needs a redesign in both layout and consistency. As it stands, eXT feels like (whether or not it actually IS isn't relevant... I can only say how it feels to me) a collection of haphazardly thrown-together elements, which do not present the power of the program in an inviting, intuitive, or sometimes even 'sensical' way.

But there's the rub, eh?-- it's such a hugely useful program that it still consistently begs to be used, offers new functionality (or "New to me!" functionality that was in place but never tapped into), and provides a slough of great tools. I'd like to see the interface improved dramatically, but in the meantime I'm not giving up on it yet.

Greg

[Lunch Money]

Can't "add sound". It just does nussink.

Without setting up the multi, only the most recently selected slicer will playback. Or at least, I'm assuming that setting up the multi would fix this, if clicking "add sound" did anything.



Obviously it must work for somebody (there are the pics, right in your tutorial!!) but it's not doing anything over here.

Edit-- wait... just some kind of GUI weirdness. When I close eXT and open it again, Loop 1 keeps appearing. However, I'm not getting a dialogue box to choose the sound, and nor is it updating properly. Let me install the default GUI-- might be an outdated skin that's causing the problem.

Greg

[Lunch Money]

Even with default GUI, weirdness ensues.

I accidentally added 2 more sounds when I only wanted one. So I go to "remove" and nothing. Can't remove-- or so I think--

Close again (not totally, just so that it loses focus) and re-open and now they're ALL gone because I had clicked "remove" so many times.

Just a bug... but I'm curious about how you managed to get it to work bug-free, NicFit.

Greg

[Lunch Money]

I must love to see myself type.

GUI weirdness can be traced to working in a second monitor. Working in primary monitor = no weirdness. To me that's a bug, as behaviour should be the same regardless of which monitor you are working in.

Mapping-- if you f**k up your auto-mapping, there seems to be no going back. Changing the root note does not change the slices' notes. So you either edit them by hand (where? I can't seem to see it...) or delete the slicer instance and start over again, remembering to set root note FIRST before importing the loop.

There seems to be a lot of renaming and going through mini-menus just to accomplish certain things that one would take for granted. I felt very clicky in there, and partially because I was tired, partially because of the initial GUI screwiness, I kept thinking, "why so many damn clicks and menus?"

At the end of the day, though--

IT WORKED!

This means I'll be able to use my loops now in songs with varying tempos, or I'll be able to re-adjust the tempo of my song if later I decide I need it a few bpm quicker/slower.

And THAT is a good thing!

Now it's just a matter of fine-tuning the whole thing-- the beat detection leaves something to be desired-- there's a bit of cutoff which leaves teeny artifacts, but when I get into a serious project using this technique, it'll be worth my time doing a bit of manual adjustment

Greg

[Noox]

I must love to see myself type.

Obviously.

How to change the slices'root key ? Just like you guessed, that's impossible.


No, just kidding.


Get back to the Slicer page, change the root key and re-click on 'Slice'. Tadaaaaaaa ! The slices keys are changed according to the new root while preserving the Slice mapper settings.

Glad you could make it Greg.

[Lunch Money]

Cool! That's good to know, and potentially saves some time. It does make sense in its own way, too, even if it wasn't my personal intuition to do it that way.

Now, if I want to do it by velocity, let me see if I understand--

1. I'd have to do it with "layers" as well, as per your first tutorial, Noox, since the slicer components don't have a velocity zone

2. eXT only exports MIDI at 100 velocity for the slicer comp; so, I'd have to manually (within my host) reset all those notes to the correct velocity.

True?