KVR Audio

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:20 am

eyeknow666 wrote:Ok, l'll re address the audio thang.......then........let's move on......

What I hear with tracktion is a definate lack of "air" and definition after recording audio tracks.....especially in "sweet spot" frequencies. Particularly when combining tracks, all the definition is gone.

Now, with other programs (energyxt, sonar, flstudio, and now in podium....lot's of price points) the only real drawback is if you record a "bad" track in these programs.

I am sorry it came across as a volume thing. I HATE brickwall limiting and rarely have high volume......things just breath better that way.

Anyways........maybe it's only me who can hear it. I'll try using some spec analy and see if I can get it to show up........

Ok, back to podium. I am really getting into this. I know (eyeknow?) not to just jump in even though the price is definatly right.......but so far I'm feelin' it.....

You are still describing it as a difference in volume. Try playing back the same audio in two hosts, record / mixdown the master, normalise the two mixdowns and now compare them. Small differences in volume is not percieved as a difference in volume. It's percieved as if frequencies are "weak", the channel separation is "low", general dullness of the sound etc.

Have you tried using send busses in Podium yet? It's great awesome

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:04 am

Yep, try to rule out the differences and you will find it probably is due to the master fader.

Or the colour ofcouse: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=992519

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:07 pm

eyeknow666 - I'm not saying that you don't perceive a difference-- your perceptions are your own. All I'm saying is that there's something you haven't taken into account, and it's not the program itself.

I wonder about that colour thing... you just never know.

It could also be that you heard someone else say that it seems dull, and your brain latched onto that even if you didn't intend it to. If you had heard a bunch of people (as I had) saying how great it sounds, you might be more disposed to think of it as good-sounding. Perception is a very tricky thing and it's hard to account for differences in it.

But at the end of the day, it's ALREADY been shown that the differences in summing are zero. Like a week ago. By someone who was convinced it sounded dull, like you; so, in other words, not by some mere fan of the program.

Regarding Podium-- regardless of whether or not I use it, I would love to see this thing getting more 'press' and a more active fan base. I wonder if it needs its own forum here?

Maybe there already IS as zealous a lot of users but I just don't see it because their forum is elsewhere. <grin>

Greg

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:21 pm

Lunch Money wrote:eyeknow666 - I'm not saying that you don't perceive a difference-- your perceptions are your own. All I'm saying is that there's something you haven't taken into account, and it's not the program itself.

I wonder about that colour thing... you just never know.

It could also be that you heard someone else say that it seems dull, and your brain latched onto that even if you didn't intend it to. If you had heard a bunch of people (as I had) saying how great it sounds, you might be more disposed to think of it as good-sounding. Perception is a very tricky thing and it's hard to account for differences in it.

But at the end of the day, it's ALREADY been shown that the differences in summing are zero. Like a week ago. By someone who was convinced it sounded dull, like you; so, in other words, not by some mere fan of the program.

Regarding Podium-- regardless of whether or not I use it, I would love to see this thing getting more 'press' and a more active fan base. I wonder if it needs its own forum here? Maybe there already IS as zealous a lot of users but I just don't see it because their forum is elsewhere. <grin>

Greg

There was a two page review of Podium in the last issue of Studio, the biggest "musicians magazine" in Sweden.

hello1234 · Post by **hello1234** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:54 pm

I am frustrated by my inabliity to communicate certain things on forums.............sigh.

BUT, I have podium running fairly well and I am giving it the once over real hard. It really seems to be a great product and I am pissed I didn't notice it earlier.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:46 pm

eyeknow666 wrote:I am frustrated by my inabliity to communicate certain things on forums.............sigh.

If it's any consolation, I think you communicated yourself fine. I've never doubted that you truly DO 'hear' a difference. I don't think you're just being silly, and I know you are not closed-minded or unintelligent in the least!

Greg

scam_artist · Post by **scam_artist** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:21 am

eyeknow666 wrote:It really seems to be a great product and I am pissed I didn't notice it earlier.

same here

i spent a logn time searching for the sequencer for me and Podium was there all along. It's now my number 1 sequencer, although I do occasionally use enregyXT inside it

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:38 am

Lunch Money wrote: There is no difference in sound from any other host. They all sum the same. Greg

Hey Greg!

I'm generally with you but:

1) Different hosts do "sound" different to me too, but it can have to do with:
- native plugs (e.g. Live 4's tinny reverb)
- pan law
- mixer (e.g. in Reason)
- Metering (e.g. in Live 4 again - poor and oh-so-small meters)
- Audio engine

2) Personally I think that Tracktion sound great compared to some others (e.g. Live 4, Cubase SX) but I've not tried Podium because of the "learning curve" put me off!

3) Podium I believe sums the mix at 64-bit, where-as Tracktion presently sums at 32-bit. But Tracktion 2 will have a 64-bit mix summing. It's possible that this may improve Tracktion's audio still further

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:42 pm

headquest wrote:1) Different hosts do "sound" different to me too, but it can have to do with:
- native plugs (e.g. Live 4's tinny reverb)
- pan law
- mixer (e.g. in Reason)
- Metering (e.g. in Live 4 again - poor and oh-so-small meters)
- Audio engine

Yup, I agree!

Since 32-bit is already heaps of headroom, I wonder if 64-bit will really sound any better or different for apps that begin using it, including Tracktion 2...?

Greg

flugel45 · Post by **flugel45** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:38 pm

What kind of copy protection does Podium use?

JD

kingtubby · Post by **kingtubby** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:46 pm

..sorry

Improv · Post by **Improv** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:49 pm

flugel45 wrote:What kind of copy protection does Podium use?
JD

From the web site:

" Purchase

Before purchasing a license you should ensure that the Podium demo is working on the PC that you intend to use for Podium. Even though you may already be familiar with Podium there is always a risk that different hardware configurations may cause unexpected problems. Zynewave does not offer a refund of your purchase if you should find that Podium does not work on your PC.

Purchasing a Podium license gives you free access to all future updates of the basic Podium product. Zynewave will offer major feature upgrades as add-on licenses that can be purchased separately. This will allow you to selectively upgrade Podium to suit your music production needs.

To purchase a Podium license you must first be registered in the community. On the online order form you are asked to enter your community membername. Once the order has been verified by Zynewave, your community membership will be upgraded to the VIP member group. This gives you access to a VIP Lounge forum where you will find details on how to download the Podium installer. Verification will typically happen within a few hours, but please accept that it may take up to 48 hours. You will receive an email when you have been added to the VIP member group.

The installer you download does not require any further authorization. Copy-protection systems ranging from serial-number input to online database authorization forms are today widely used in the software industry. Copy-protection systems are however a nuisance to everyone except those that use illegal cracked software. Zynewave have chosen not to implement copy-protection in Podium.

The only place where you can purchase a Podium license is on www.zynewave.com. If you encounter other websites or persons selling licenses or copies of Podium, these are illegal. "

flugel45 · Post by **flugel45** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:58 pm

Ooh, will definitely check it out now. Thanks, db!

JD

Improv · Post by **Improv** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:25 pm

flugel45 wrote:Ooh, will definitely check it out now. Thanks, db!

JD

Yer welcome. Once you're registered in the VIP section, you can check for updates as easy as checking a newsgroup. Far better than the convoluted
procedures used by some other devs <cough!>

jens · Post by **jens** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:21 pm

eyeknow666 wrote:
Lunch Money wrote:
eyeknow666 wrote:DULL DULL DULL
You're wrong. There is no difference in sound from any other host. They all sum the same. In a recent thread, someone did the frequency cancellation test vs. another host and they cancelled perfectly. Make sure the master fader is set to fullscale instead of the default -3.

Greg
Nope, I hear a definate difference. I can't use t1 for audio tracks because it's so lifeless. It has nothing to do with volume.
Sorry

really - that's nonsense - should I post a few songs (including lotsa guitar & vocals) I did with different hosts and you tell us which of them I did with Tracktion? - or I could also upload single dry vox&guitar takes - should be no problem for you to tell which ones are the dull files

that opinion of yours is religious fanatism, nothing more!

podium users