Is your notebook configured for it's optimal resolution? LCDs are notoriously bad looking when not running their "optimal" resolution -- lots of manufacturers scale the output of the lower resolutions up to the optimal resolution to fit the actual size of the display (on my dell inspiron for example there is a function + font key I hit to invoke this) -- make sure you are running your notebook at the optimal resolution. Usually it's XGA (if the notebook is a few years old) which is 1024x768, but sometimes it's higher. Check your docs and make sure that you are, because if you aren't you will notice a huge improvement when you do. Even non-notebook flatpanels have similar problems which they try to compensate for by scaling (and sometimes you can disable that through the video card settings per mfg). HTHP.T. wrote:I just took a look at the large version of the default GUI and it looks OK.
Maybe it is just the small type on most guis that is making it look blurry.
Oatmeal (mediocre free VSTi) - 37-4 (fixed Renoise problem)
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- KVRAF
- 8519 posts since 7 Apr, 2003
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- KVRian
- 772 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from ezeeworld
You got me.haydxn wrote:of course i'm being picky, but i hate to see words used with their exact opposite meaning! i trust by 'aliasing' you mean 'anti-aliasing'...
In my defense look at the time of the post, it twas the wee small hours.
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- KVRist
- 147 posts since 21 Sep, 2004
Sorry for coming again with the question i asked 4 pages ago : does someone know why many patches made with the random button don't work anymore ? I saved them with Savihost and Minihost in .fxp, and many of them work, but many others don't work anymore...
the pack is still here :
http://lesitedeburnie.free.fr/Oatmeal-35.5-05042006.rar
the pack is still here :
http://lesitedeburnie.free.fr/Oatmeal-35.5-05042006.rar
The best free harpsichord soundbanks, the famous Maestro Concert Grand piano : http://sonimusicae.free.fr
The list of the best free synths :
http://lesitedeburnie.free.fr/
The list of the best free synths :
http://lesitedeburnie.free.fr/
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- KVRist
- 188 posts since 23 Feb, 2004 from Between the headphones
Finally got a chance to try this, so I thought I'd try to post comments for Fuzzpilz that were a bit more constructive than "OMG it's so great" or "it sucks" (not that there's anything wrong with that sort of comment).
First though, I have a request: Please, please release the arpeggiator as a separate plugin by itself. This is easily the most fully featured algorithmic (as opposed to just transposing a midi pattern) arp I've been able to find (and man have I looked). At the very least, please make it possible to output midi from Oatmeal. This is literally the arpeggiator of my dreams, and I'd certainly be willing to pay a modest sum for it.
That being said, I probably wouldn't pay for the synth as a whole (If you charged for it). There's alot of good stuff in this synth, but I can understand why you made the comments you did in your initial post:
Now the oscillators are another thing entirely. This synth's detractors and I must have completely different concepts of how a good osc sounds, because I was pretty impressed by the raw output of these. This is in contrast to those of synths like Bones' 'killers synths, which to me have always sounded fairly plain, even with cross-modulation. Using Oatmeal's random patch gen, I got a number of patches that sounded really full and punchy without any filtering at all. I should note that on most patches I auditioned them with and without the chorus/delay/reverb, and sometimes without the distortion as well. The user-editable waveforms are a really nice touch, and reasonably well executed as well (a preview of what the operations in the edit window will do to the wave would be a nice improvement). PWM of the user wave is really cool as well. I was able to get some nice PPG type sounds using this.
I can't say I was particularly impressed with the filter, but then again, I rarely am. I tend to think that in the effort to emulate all the old filter sounds, developers have given up on creating anything that sounds unique, but maybe that's just me. Getting back to Oatmeal though, I will say that the filter was one place where the parameter ranges were a decided advantage. I got some insanely resonant sounds out of it.
Now for my two biggest criticisms of this synth, which kind of go hand in hand; the modulation options and the GUI/layout.
The modulation options seem like a really odd blend of a complex synth with lots of modulation options like z3ta+ or Surge, and a simpler workhorse synth like Alpha, or Fabfilter One. I mean, there are two Modulation EGs with four destination slots each, but the LFO destinations are hardwired. The inclusion of two midi assignable controllers is nice, but since the midi-learn is lost with each patch change they're rendered a bit useless. This leaves the XY controller as the only straightforward modulation controller, and personally, these things drive me nuts. I understand that devs want to provide some sort performance control for people who might not have a midi controller but these XY pads take up alot screen real-estate, and with Oatmeal that's a really valuable commodity. My other problem with XY pads is that for those of use who do use midi controllers assigned to the axes, the visual feedback doesn't correlate to the physical movements of the user. While it's not a huge problem, it certainly doesn't add to the intuitiveness of the instrument. So far, Z3ta+ is the only synth I've come across that has a solution that works, putting the XY pad in a closeable window, and having the axes available in the mod-matrix with all the other midi CCs.
The last issue with this synth is the GUI and it's layout, and I freely admit that as a graphic designer I'm probably more sensitive to this sort of thing than most. The reason I said this was sort-of related to the modulation thing is that if you want to design a synth with tons of parameters and loads of modulation options, I think it's a little optimistic to try cram it all on one page. This is especially true if you're trying keep the window size small enough for people at lower-res. There is such a thing as too much information being available, and this idea that we should be able to see everything at a glance, take up only a part of the monitor, and still have a sound-design powerhouse with hundreds of options is ridiculous. Something has to give, and it shouldn't be intuitiveness, and useability.
Having said all that, and as I said before, I can see why you refered to this as "mediocre", but I think (and hope) "Prototype" would be a more appropriate term. While there are definite design problems, the overall sound is pretty impressive, as well as features like the arppegiator and the randomizer (love the touch of humor there). I think it would be a real shame not to develop these things further. Also, I hope you don't mind catching the brunt of my views on synth design. Not have the skills to code one of my own, I have nothing to do but voice my opinions where I think they'll be of use.
First though, I have a request: Please, please release the arpeggiator as a separate plugin by itself. This is easily the most fully featured algorithmic (as opposed to just transposing a midi pattern) arp I've been able to find (and man have I looked). At the very least, please make it possible to output midi from Oatmeal. This is literally the arpeggiator of my dreams, and I'd certainly be willing to pay a modest sum for it.
That being said, I probably wouldn't pay for the synth as a whole (If you charged for it). There's alot of good stuff in this synth, but I can understand why you made the comments you did in your initial post:
There are a number of issues that make this feel like a "trial run" for lack of a better term. A number of parameters seem to have ranges that are pretty extreme, particularly the envelope settings. A number of times the random patch generator came up with envelopes that were so slow that for all intents and purposes there was no sound (and yes, I held a chord for a longgg time). Similarly, in many cases the velocity response seemed pretty extreme. I'm not a programmer so I don't know if these things are related to response curves or ranges or what, but they're a big contributor to the "beta" feel of oatmeal for me.Fuzzpilz wrote: The name says it all - it's a fairly generic thing, mostly written because I wanted to mess with VST development and such, having mostly kept to Buzz only before; my next VSTi, if/when it happens, will be better or at least more interesting.
Now the oscillators are another thing entirely. This synth's detractors and I must have completely different concepts of how a good osc sounds, because I was pretty impressed by the raw output of these. This is in contrast to those of synths like Bones' 'killers synths, which to me have always sounded fairly plain, even with cross-modulation. Using Oatmeal's random patch gen, I got a number of patches that sounded really full and punchy without any filtering at all. I should note that on most patches I auditioned them with and without the chorus/delay/reverb, and sometimes without the distortion as well. The user-editable waveforms are a really nice touch, and reasonably well executed as well (a preview of what the operations in the edit window will do to the wave would be a nice improvement). PWM of the user wave is really cool as well. I was able to get some nice PPG type sounds using this.
I can't say I was particularly impressed with the filter, but then again, I rarely am. I tend to think that in the effort to emulate all the old filter sounds, developers have given up on creating anything that sounds unique, but maybe that's just me. Getting back to Oatmeal though, I will say that the filter was one place where the parameter ranges were a decided advantage. I got some insanely resonant sounds out of it.
Now for my two biggest criticisms of this synth, which kind of go hand in hand; the modulation options and the GUI/layout.
The modulation options seem like a really odd blend of a complex synth with lots of modulation options like z3ta+ or Surge, and a simpler workhorse synth like Alpha, or Fabfilter One. I mean, there are two Modulation EGs with four destination slots each, but the LFO destinations are hardwired. The inclusion of two midi assignable controllers is nice, but since the midi-learn is lost with each patch change they're rendered a bit useless. This leaves the XY controller as the only straightforward modulation controller, and personally, these things drive me nuts. I understand that devs want to provide some sort performance control for people who might not have a midi controller but these XY pads take up alot screen real-estate, and with Oatmeal that's a really valuable commodity. My other problem with XY pads is that for those of use who do use midi controllers assigned to the axes, the visual feedback doesn't correlate to the physical movements of the user. While it's not a huge problem, it certainly doesn't add to the intuitiveness of the instrument. So far, Z3ta+ is the only synth I've come across that has a solution that works, putting the XY pad in a closeable window, and having the axes available in the mod-matrix with all the other midi CCs.
The last issue with this synth is the GUI and it's layout, and I freely admit that as a graphic designer I'm probably more sensitive to this sort of thing than most. The reason I said this was sort-of related to the modulation thing is that if you want to design a synth with tons of parameters and loads of modulation options, I think it's a little optimistic to try cram it all on one page. This is especially true if you're trying keep the window size small enough for people at lower-res. There is such a thing as too much information being available, and this idea that we should be able to see everything at a glance, take up only a part of the monitor, and still have a sound-design powerhouse with hundreds of options is ridiculous. Something has to give, and it shouldn't be intuitiveness, and useability.
Having said all that, and as I said before, I can see why you refered to this as "mediocre", but I think (and hope) "Prototype" would be a more appropriate term. While there are definite design problems, the overall sound is pretty impressive, as well as features like the arppegiator and the randomizer (love the touch of humor there). I think it would be a real shame not to develop these things further. Also, I hope you don't mind catching the brunt of my views on synth design. Not have the skills to code one of my own, I have nothing to do but voice my opinions where I think they'll be of use.
"I drank what?"
Socrates
Socrates
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Reverse Engineer Reverse Engineer https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9129
- KVRAF
- 4968 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Glasgow
Great post. Some of the things you say there i wholeheartedly agree with, some, although i do agree (the layout for example) many of those issues have been resolved thanks to the skinning work of eezeeboogie. As far as develompment goes, and i don't dare speak for fuzzpilz, but i would assume it is ongoing. At the heart of it all though the features and sounds (to me) are well above average, so that makes dealing with the small issues so much easier. Anyway, again, great post.jkotz wrote:Finally got a chance to try this, so I thought I'd try to post comments for Fuzzpilz that were a bit more constructive than "OMG it's so great" or "it sucks" (not that there's anything wrong with that sort of comment).
First though, I have a request: Please, please release the arpeggiator as a separate plugin by itself. This is easily the most fully featured algorithmic (as opposed to just transposing a midi pattern) arp I've been able to find (and man have I looked). At the very least, please make it possible to output midi from Oatmeal. This is literally the arpeggiator of my dreams, and I'd certainly be willing to pay a modest sum for it.
That being said, I probably wouldn't pay for the synth as a whole (If you charged for it). There's alot of good stuff in this synth, but I can understand why you made the comments you did in your initial post:
There are a number of issues that make this feel like a "trial run" for lack of a better term. A number of parameters seem to have ranges that are pretty extreme, particularly the envelope settings. A number of times the random patch generator came up with envelopes that were so slow that for all intents and purposes there was no sound (and yes, I held a chord for a longgg time). Similarly, in many cases the velocity response seemed pretty extreme. I'm not a programmer so I don't know if these things are related to response curves or ranges or what, but they're a big contributor to the "beta" feel of oatmeal for me.Fuzzpilz wrote: The name says it all - it's a fairly generic thing, mostly written because I wanted to mess with VST development and such, having mostly kept to Buzz only before; my next VSTi, if/when it happens, will be better or at least more interesting.
Now the oscillators are another thing entirely. This synth's detractors and I must have completely different concepts of how a good osc sounds, because I was pretty impressed by the raw output of these. This is in contrast to those of synths like Bones' 'killers synths, which to me have always sounded fairly plain, even with cross-modulation. Using Oatmeal's random patch gen, I got a number of patches that sounded really full and punchy without any filtering at all. I should note that on most patches I auditioned them with and without the chorus/delay/reverb, and sometimes without the distortion as well. The user-editable waveforms are a really nice touch, and reasonably well executed as well (a preview of what the operations in the edit window will do to the wave would be a nice improvement). PWM of the user wave is really cool as well. I was able to get some nice PPG type sounds using this.
I can't say I was particularly impressed with the filter, but then again, I rarely am. I tend to think that in the effort to emulate all the old filter sounds, developers have given up on creating anything that sounds unique, but maybe that's just me. Getting back to Oatmeal though, I will say that the filter was one place where the parameter ranges were a decided advantage. I got some insanely resonant sounds out of it.
Now for my two biggest criticisms of this synth, which kind of go hand in hand; the modulation options and the GUI/layout.
The modulation options seem like a really odd blend of a complex synth with lots of modulation options like z3ta+ or Surge, and a simpler workhorse synth like Alpha, or Fabfilter One. I mean, there are two Modulation EGs with four destination slots each, but the LFO destinations are hardwired. The inclusion of two midi assignable controllers is nice, but since the midi-learn is lost with each patch change they're rendered a bit useless. This leaves the XY controller as the only straightforward modulation controller, and personally, these things drive me nuts. I understand that devs want to provide some sort performance control for people who might not have a midi controller but these XY pads take up alot screen real-estate, and with Oatmeal that's a really valuable commodity. My other problem with XY pads is that for those of use who do use midi controllers assigned to the axes, the visual feedback doesn't correlate to the physical movements of the user. While it's not a huge problem, it certainly doesn't add to the intuitiveness of the instrument. So far, Z3ta+ is the only synth I've come across that has a solution that works, putting the XY pad in a closeable window, and having the axes available in the mod-matrix with all the other midi CCs.
The last issue with this synth is the GUI and it's layout, and I freely admit that as a graphic designer I'm probably more sensitive to this sort of thing than most. The reason I said this was sort-of related to the modulation thing is that if you want to design a synth with tons of parameters and loads of modulation options, I think it's a little optimistic to try cram it all on one page. This is especially true if you're trying keep the window size small enough for people at lower-res. There is such a thing as too much information being available, and this idea that we should be able to see everything at a glance, take up only a part of the monitor, and still have a sound-design powerhouse with hundreds of options is ridiculous. Something has to give, and it shouldn't be intuitiveness, and useability.
Having said all that, and as I said before, I can see why you refered to this as "mediocre", but I think (and hope) "Prototype" would be a more appropriate term. While there are definite design problems, the overall sound is pretty impressive, as well as features like the arppegiator and the randomizer (love the touch of humor there). I think it would be a real shame not to develop these things further. Also, I hope you don't mind catching the brunt of my views on synth design. Not have the skills to code one of my own, I have nothing to do but voice my opinions where I think they'll be of use.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 250 posts since 17 Jun, 2004 from Magdeburg
jkotz: No problem - actually, I agree with most of your points. If a little explanation is welcome: a lot of what's inelegant about the design as a whole is to blame on the fact that it was going to be even simpler originally - just oscs, filter, chorus, delay. The LFO was bolted on with that in mind, and then everything else was thrown in as a series of afterthoughts, changing direction on a few internal things several times. I do think Oatmeal is still simple enough that it works on one page, however - there just isn't enough there to justify expanding it into a multi-page GUI, in my mind.
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- KVRAF
- 3369 posts since 16 Jan, 2005 from Ottawa, Ontario
Multi pages are not necessary. Especially since a nicely laid out skin like ezee's puts everything together in a bit more intuitively that the oroginal. I still happen to like that mIniMalistiX original skin best, but ezee's latest layout is very convenient. If I knew how, I'd use ezee's layout and size with the original colours, knobs etc.
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- KVRist
- 115 posts since 8 Apr, 2004 from Milky Way
I partly agree with P.T. I think the new ezee skins are blurry, especially the text. For instance the previous eezee_nord skin from the zip package and the default skin are really sharp and clear on my screen, only too small (I have a hi-rez notebook running at it's native resolution). The difference is quite obvious when putting the various png files side-by-side. I really like the size and the overall design of the new skins though. Anyway I just wanted to mention that it's definitely not a screen problem on my part.ezeeboogie wrote:Either you're overexagerating with your "all of the skins are very blurry" comment or you need a new monitor!
The text on my GUIs is uses photoshops standard aliasing algorythyms which aren't the greatest and can appear *slightly* blurry depending on a number of factors like what screen res/monitor size you are using and what type of monitor. Does the standard Oatmeal skin look blurry on your monitor? The standard skin has almost no aliasing so it should appear pin sharp unless it really is a problem at your end.
Maybe I'll just sharpen the main png image by myself or redo the text with a cleaner font. That's about all the skinning talent I have anyway... Thanks for that great work. It makes Oatmeal ever more so pleasant to play with.
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- KVRAF
- 7032 posts since 28 Apr, 2004 from france
Yes, and i am dreaming of a black/brown/grey skin, based on the original one...Really, my preferred skin at the moment is the original one. I like it when it's compact, with a single colour scheme.
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- KVRAF
- 6241 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from right here, as you can see ...
fuzzpilz, there's no need for a multipage. if you just give us a switch to either see/use the x-y controller or a modulation matrix ... with a modmatrix one could easily do the connections he needs, without having to deal with another page ... well, kind of ...Fuzzpilz wrote:I do think Oatmeal is still simple enough that it works on one page, however - there just isn't enough there to justify expanding it into a multi-page GUI, in my mind.
really, i mentioned it before in this thread, think about a modmatrix. way more intuitive ...
just because of that fact oatmeal could be just about all one needs, as the algorithms themself are capable of a lot allready ... if they could be only controlled the way one sets the control up himself ... really would be the bomb ... trust me ... i'm a sounddesigner _and_ a user ...
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man
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- KVRian
- 772 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from ezeeworld
See the ezee skins thread. New version on it's way.InfiNeat wrote:I partly agree with P.T. I think the new ezee skins are blurry, especially the text. For instance the previous eezee_nord skin from the zip package and the default skin are really sharp and clear on my screen, only too small (I have a hi-rez notebook running at it's native resolution). The difference is quite obvious when putting the various png files side-by-side. I really like the size and the overall design of the new skins though. Anyway I just wanted to mention that it's definitely not a screen problem on my part.ezeeboogie wrote:Either you're overexagerating with your "all of the skins are very blurry" comment or you need a new monitor!
The text on my GUIs is uses photoshops standard aliasing algorythyms which aren't the greatest and can appear *slightly* blurry depending on a number of factors like what screen res/monitor size you are using and what type of monitor. Does the standard Oatmeal skin look blurry on your monitor? The standard skin has almost no aliasing so it should appear pin sharp unless it really is a problem at your end.
Maybe I'll just sharpen the main png image by myself or redo the text with a cleaner font. That's about all the skinning talent I have anyway... Thanks for that great work. It makes Oatmeal ever more so pleasant to play with.
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- KVRian
- 772 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from ezeeworld
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- KVRian
- 940 posts since 11 Mar, 2001 from nyc
geat synth!!! interface is a bit small and i havent installed the nord skin. looked to complicated for me hehe. actualy im just lazy