Tough love for Amplitube... (and a partial apology)

[AndrewSimon]

LOL!
And here I was thinking you didn't have a sense of humor for April Fools jokes...

Well Brian that joke still hurts.
I wanted a Dumble sim badly since I started playing (age 40 )
I was dreaming about it, hoping AmpliTube will come out with one.
So yeah, your joke was not fun for me.

Luckily S-Gear did it, so now I can have my D tone:
http://www.andras-shimon.com/S-Gear/RFord2.mp3

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Oh are the Ignite Mosher's brewing up a another storm? If so good to hear.

Yes, but it seems it'll take a while to get it out the door (check the GAM link) : http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4826259

Cheers, Going to keep a keen eye on that one

I almost forgot that Phoenix Rising through the years... I used to listen to Annihilator quite a bit (mostly the debut) and I feel ashamed to admit I didn't skip that song when listening to "Set the World on Fire"

I did not skip it either and nothing to be ashamed of (Well for me anyway/my opinion). I think i'd have to say Never, Neverland is probably the album for me but Alice In Hell is great also...Heck I like all of them even when it was Jeff and an Alesis drum machine i still loved/listened and have all of them (Refresh The Demon and IIRC King Of The Kill or Criteria were the one-man band heavy releases). Its what I grew up on. Snake in the grass is another awesome one of that one Roadrunner was a dependable metal label back then too! Even Earache are signing aload of crap of recent that is like classic rock type tripe I hope its just a phase on Earache's behalf mate..."Anti-Mosh" sounds spot on right now

Cheers

[Dean Aka Nekro]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, In my very humble honest opinion a Kemper Profiling Amp (with a player's preference of profiled amplifiers of course) and a Two-Notes Torpedo VB-101 or VM-202 is where it is at from my point of view.

I don't get it. Why would you need the Torpedo if you have the Kemper?

Because personally I would use a send from the Kemper into the Torpedo so I have more even mic'd cabs to mix and match around with and/or take my regular setup aswell...Choices, Choices, Choices but I'm mostly just doing recording nowadays so that probably comes into it as studio buys aswell as pleasing myself. As I'd still keep all my stuff if I did get a Kemper, Like John said - its a great time to be a guitar player couln't agree more and also because I am an options man, More the better because I will never be 100% complete with my sound or I'd give up as it would be no fun anymore

[deleted]

.

[davidka]

My route is:

S-gear demo ----> NastyDLA --> Torpedo Pi-Free (variphi enabled)
(or Anvil)


Volume and Davidka are panned all the way to the left speaker which is overdriven by default.
For me, this setup feels pretty close to sitting near a decent amp. I can improve details until infinity, but for practice it already works really really really great for me.

[@midnight]

Choices, Choices, Choices but I'm mostly just doing recording nowadays so that probably comes into it as studio buys aswell as pleasing myself.

Why do you need so many choices?

On most great records there are only a handful of different basic guitar tones, perhaps with different reverb or delay, or some modulation in certain sections.

But if you change the basic guitar sound on every song, you end up with a messy, amateurish sounding record.

That's just my two cents.

[Hink]

Choices, Choices, Choices but I'm mostly just doing recording nowadays so that probably comes into it as studio buys aswell as pleasing myself.

Why do you need so many choices?

On most great records there are only a handful of different basic guitar tones, perhaps with different reverb or delay, or some modulation in certain sections.

But if you change the basic guitar sound on every song, you end up with a messy, amateurish sounding record.

That's just my two cents.

I can't speak for Dean but I'm about choices as well and there are several reasons, one to fit the mix. Even subtle differences can make a difference and some of those differences can only come from the amps (my article for koolkeys that I'm still working on is about re-amping and doing just this).

Another reason for me is because I do not give a hoot about any "great" records as that is misleading, I care about new directions to explore and have fun with. I dont have to record it to go on an adventure outside of a handful of tones (you're not the only one to say this to me and I'll never get the concept of limiting growth and creativity this way). When I go off on just such adventures (not always tone based, style, genre, alternate tunings etc also take me to places I have never been before), I learn so much more and that is what success is to me.

I use a lot of different tunings and to assume a handful of tones will be enough for the different tunings would be self defeating. Just the difference between Gm (DGDGBbD) and Dm (DADFAD) makes a big difference when you change up the tones. Gm can bring out feelings of discontent, be a bit angry sounding while Dm has more of an emotional tug to it. Changing the tone to reflect this enhances the effect of using key changes to bring out emotions.

I have a few different guitars including my baritone* that all have unique mods or set ups and once again often different guitars work better with subtle changes afforded me by those choices.

IMHO leaving the record out of it, to not stimulate growth is amateurish and counterproductive...then there is the fact that much of my life I have been a 1 guitar, 1 amp guy and I love my freedom. How much time have you spent with a true class A single ended amp? I dont want everything in Class A, AB push/pull or class B because each one brings on their own elements. So why would I settle with one amp with one power tube(s) option...that becomes static and dull imo.

You may only hear a few tones, but my tone is ever evolving and when that stops I reckon I will too.

*by the end of the weekend the p-rails will be in my baritone which is a tele custom with a Warmoth baritone neck. With the p-rails it will give me 4 tone choices for the pups, humbucker parallel, humbucker series, single coil (rail) and p-90. Also the baritone is wired for one or two outputs, both pups can be routed to one output together or each have their own output. It has two artec QDD2 pre-amps in it which is a 5 way rotary switch with bypass, boost, blues boost, distortion and hi-gain. When in mono mode it uses one pre-amp but in stereo each pup also has it's own pre-amp.

Surely with a beast like that even more amps and tone choices only makes sense

[@midnight]

I don't think it limits creativity at all to stick to a few good amps (or amp sims)... there's no creativity in using a different amp on every song.

Creativity is in how you play the instrument, the muic you write, the choices you make in terms of what notes to play, etc...

I sort of approach the instrument like a voice. And as singers only have one voice, they learn to get creative with it and through that limitation you actually can become more musically expressive than if you had more options in gear/voices.

What you describe up there ^^^ is more akin to the motorcycle hobbyist spending all day in his garage working on his motorcycles, but in the end, not really accomplishing anything. Not that it isn't fun or a valid way to spend ones life.

[Cooker]

I don't think it limits creativity at all to stick to a few good amps (or amp sims)... there's no creativity in using a different amp on every song.

I think "in a way" (!) there is, specially for people like me who likes to blend sounds together.

The only time I use presets are with guitar related vst's. I have a growing personal preset library (and sometimes shrinking ) and whenever I blend like 3 sound I like, I end-up with an amazing sound. Small changes at the next song seems to keep the familiar sound as well.

I always liked multiple mic.s when recording in a pro studio but seems at home I like opening vst's rather than eq the same amp+cab.

[Hink]

I don't think it limits creativity at all to stick to a few good amps (or amp sims)... there's no creativity in using a different amp on every song.

Creativity is in how you play the instrument, the muic you write, the choices you make in terms of what notes to play, etc...

I sort of approach the instrument like a voice. And as singers only have one voice, they learn to get creative with it and through that limitation you actually can become more musically expressive than if you had more options in gear/voices.

What you describe up there ^^^ is more akin to the motorcycle hobbyist spending all day in his garage working on his motorcycles, but in the end, not really accomplishing anything. Not that it isn't fun or a valid way to spend ones life.

that may be how you see it but I dont at all...am I wrong?...Dont answer because the answer is I am not wrong and neither are you. You asked why one would want many different choices and I gave you some very valid reasons why this is MY choice. So please do not tell me that I'm less creative because I like having more than a handful of colors to paint with.

As far as creativity though how ironic you say "the choices you make in terms of notes to play" but you cannot see that choices in tones are not creative? Is creativity only as you define it? (it may be to you but if you think you have the right to define that for others that simply speaks for itself)

BTW many who have been here a while have witnessed my daughter's drawings, she is a gifted artist and with just a pen or a pencil can do incredibly creative work so that is a two way street. No one here has said anyone else has to be one way or another except you.

[@midnight]

I don't think it limits creativity at all to stick to a few good amps (or amp sims)... there's no creativity in using a different amp on every song.

I think "in a way" (!) there is, specially for people like me who likes to blend sounds together.

I think an infinite range of tones can be had from a simple three amp setup like Fender Marshall and Orange, or Fender, Marshall and Mesa Boogie.

I just think it gets a bit fuzzy when you see people complaining that like 15 amp sims isn't enough, they need more....

[@midnight]

As far as creativity though how ironic you say "the choices you make in terms of notes to play" but you cannot see that choices in tones are not creative? Is creativity only as you define it?

I enjoy guitar tones as much as the next guy, I just don't think you need 37 amp sims and 65 cab sims to do it. In fact, I think that can possibly slow you down or distract you, versus having say 5-7 great amp sims.

Now that I think about it though, to cover the classic sounds you really need atleast 9 different amps.

Fender Bassman
Fender Deluxe Reverb
Fender Twin
Hiwatt 100-watt
Marshall Plexi
Marshall JCM800
Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier
Orange OR-120
Vox AC30

[Hink]

As far as creativity though how ironic you say "the choices you make in terms of notes to play" but you cannot see that choices in tones are not creative? Is creativity only as you define it?

I enjoy guitar tones as much as the next guy, I just don't think you need 37 amp sims and 65 cab sims to do it. In fact, I think that can possibly slow you down or distract you, versus having say 5-7 great amp sims.

Now that I think about it though, to cover the classic sounds you really need atleast 9 different amps.

Fender Bassman
Fender Deluxe Reverb
Fender Twin
Hiwatt 100-watt
Marshall Plexi
Marshall JCM800
Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier
Orange OR-120
Vox AC30

I have 5 tube amps that cover that except maybe the dual rectifier (however that tone is not out of reach, I just do not have a dual tectifier amp...yet) but tbh I think your list is flawed because within there are several amps that crossover so it could be reduced. OT but there is a cool mod out there (too lazy to hunt it down now) that let's you modify your amp so a guitar amp can be a bass amp as well (this mod is not rocket science).

FWIW my point was not to defend having a ton of models in a sim, I guess I assumed that by my reputation here that was implied You said a handful of tones in your question to Dean, there's a big difference between the two though. I have built my mini collection of amps so my routing possibilities are extreme and the nature of all my amps except my boogie are versatile amps.

Take for instance the Egnater Rebel 20, that has both 6v6 and el84 power tubes with a blend control so you can have all of either or a mix of both. I also have the THD Yellow Jackets which gives me pentode class A el84s, so that amp alone is pretty versatile. In the three amps that I might want to use just their power amp I have fx loops so I can do just that.

I can run the eganter or my jet city 50 watt pre-amps into the power amp on my frenzel which is single ended, can use many different power tubes and has a pentode/triode switch. I can run the frenzels and the jet city pres into the rebel power amp or of course run amps just into the jet city power amp (I can use the thd yjs in all my amps except my little frenzel).

So quite literally a handful of amps with a very wide spectrum of tones. You're right, you dont need a ton of models, just some really good patching capabilities and some good amps (or sims)

[Hink]

let me add that the right pedals in front of an amp makes a big difference as well.

[davidka]

I can speak only for myself.
Among several other issues, I have a mild OCD. This looks like I love to keep things efficient and clean in a minimalist fashion. But every once I try out something new in the amp sim realm, my taste gets different. Sometimes what sounded bad starts to sound good, and what sounded good turns to crap.

I am constantly varying my options regarding on what I'm reading and what is my mood of listening in the moment. If I read here that my current software sounds bad, I'll start feel disorganized and literally crave for the better one. I'll forget how many good times I had with certain software.

Everyone works like this, I'm just an extreme case. The exact opposite is true however. The moment you've read from varying sources: that you Need something or (and!) you may need to rethink your current setup, this statement starts to mess with your head. You won't look the same way to your existing gear anymore... GAS and therefore less music comes again

I feel that I'm not alone when I say I always get concerned about the quality of my signal chain. This messes up my practices and I end up here reading what sounds good. I observed that Generally on KvR, we started to talk too much about the gear, and less on how to exploit them fully. Each minute we spend arguing about our amp is one more minute when that poor thing is not used.



To be on-topic:

I'm with midnight on the idea of having a carefully selected few of the huge variety, to cover most of the tones we want to hear. Let's juice this up with the fact you've concluded: that cabinets have more impact on the final sound than the amp used. Still a lot money, right?

Certain soft amp models can cover a different software's whole selection of amps. I personally had too much of the same soup when I tried POD Farm. Liked the sound, just felt the plugin was cluttered with having 30 (mediocre) models for the exact same purposes and I was just overwhelmed.

My highest bid is on the Custom Shop. It is the best available option. You get what you want, and you don't get what you don't want. No clutter, no BS, you can even demo each piece. I think that in the future, competitors could also head this way. You'll be able to select the models you are interested in, and skip the ones you feel are just redundant.

Sorry for the long post, I have to study maths. That means I'm here reading about what should sound good for me.