Tough love for Amplitube... (and a partial apology)

[zerocrossing]

OK, I'm re-doing this post because I did some experimenting and found some stuff out. I resolved the ugly crackly high end by replacing a cable that had gone south. I didn't think this could be an issue, because it wasn't evident in all of the models, but it seems that some models just seem better at showing it off. So, a big apology to that bit about the ugly fizziness in the highs.

But back to the S100... smoother now, but still crappy. Ugly high end! So I experimented as people suggested and tried impulses. I was lazy and just used ones that came with S-Gear (remember xgear?) and Speakerphone and I was able to get a much better tone!

But that got me to thinking... since I quite like a lot of the models in Amplitube... love some of them, what if I put a cab from a model I love on this dud of an amp? I threw on a 1x12 PPC 112 (Orange).

It sounded great!

So, from what I surmise is going on, it seems like the matched cab that comes with the S100 has his really bad sounding high end. I put it through a spectrum analyzer and it was clear that other cabs like the tiny terror cab also put out a lot of high frequency energy but it sounded a lot more natural. Maybe it's actually the way this Marshal cab sounds? Again, I was able to get it to sound very good at clean settings and even if I thew a fuzz or distortion like the Mudhoney on it. Maybe those are band limited in a way that mask what I'm talking about.

So, this is a work-around I can live with, but it does point to something that maybe pushing people away from Amplitube. I quickly passed through a bunch of the cabs and a few of them really do have this brittle high end symptom like the 4x4 metal F2. Some sound really good though.

In the end, I didn't actually find any benefit from using a pure impulse (though some I used sounded great) as opposed to using a good sounding Amplitube cab and the Amplitube cabs have the added advantage of letting you do cool things with mic placement and really nice room mic ambience.

[blueman]

That's fair criticism. The AT3 Marshall models just don't get it for me and never really have. Well...they say something "BIG" is coming in the next month or so, so let's see what happens next

[zvenx]

it is amplitube on both android and ios 5

rsp

[D.H. Miltz]

Moved to Effects. If I'm missing something and you really think it should be back in Hardware, let me know.

[lfm]

TBH, isn't that the case with hardware amps as well. Not every amp is for every cabinet+guitar+pickups+playingstyle.

I have no experience with AT, and never will, but still not everything will be to taste.

Let's be fair.

[chokehold]

Here's an experiment for you: dump the AT3 cab/mic emulation (=bypass it) and instead put an IR loader behind AT3 and load an Impulse Response of some cabinet in it.

Though even doing that won't make it sound "real", I'm still quite sure you'll notice an instant improvement.

I've had my share of discomfort with AT3, and mostly because I think the cabinets and mics suck big time. Most of the amps by themselves I find to be quite pleasant.

But then, parallel to that, have you ever heard any GOOD SOUNDING sound demos of any high-gain amp sim? All the demos are Clean, Crunch and Overdrive or something like that, so that not too much distortion occurs. It's always the high-gain settings that cause the amp sim to break up into weak high-mid fizz and powerless, overcompressed and oversaturated noise.

Try finding a real high-gain demo that sounds any good ... I'd be surprised. I tried.

Here's one AT3 demo, and it sounds like sh!t, so say the least. No guitar sounds like that!

Here's another AT3 demo, just as weak and unreal:


To be fair, here's a ReValver demo, it sounds fat because it's so much louder than the rest of the mix, but it's still got only fizz and "bshhhh" but no balls, no pressure.


Here's NI's RammFire, doing just the same: no balls, lifeless, just like white noise.


And here's one of your beloved Scuffham, which I find even worse, as it lacks just about anything apart from low-end rumble.


They all do it, they all sound flat and fizzy and weak and swishy, and all of them are just a slap into the face of even the cheapest "real" high-gain transistor amps, even they've got more dynamics than that.

And I think it's related to the way the (power) amps/cabs/speakers/mics are simulated.

Yesterday I recorded a lame DI track, shot it through AT3/German Gain without the cab, fed it into the FX return of my amp head and then into my isolation cabinet and recorded that again.

One speaker, one SM57 ... and it sounded real. OK, the speaker was shit for the material (weak-ass Eminence Black Powder) but even with that mid-intensive honky tone, compared to the AT3 German Gain WITH cab sim, I still got a much more true-to-life tone out of it.

That's proof enough for me. It's dem cabinet sims!

[zerocrossing]

Here's an experiment for you: dump the AT3 cab/mic emulation (=bypass it) and instead put an IR loader behind AT3 and load an Impulse Response of some cabinet in it.

Though even doing that won't make it sound "real", I'm still quite sure you'll notice an instant improvement.

I've had my share of discomfort with AT3, and mostly because I think the cabinets and mics suck big time. Most of the amps by themselves I find to be quite pleasant.

But then, parallel to that, have you ever heard any GOOD SOUNDING sound demos of any high-gain amp sim? All the demos are Clean, Crunch and Overdrive or something like that, so that not too much distortion occurs. It's always the high-gain settings that cause the amp sim to break up into weak high-mid fizz and powerless, overcompressed and oversaturated noise.

Try finding a real high-gain demo that sounds any good ... I'd be surprised. I tried.

Here's one AT3 demo, and it sounds like sh!t, so say the least. No guitar sounds like that!

Here's another AT3 demo, just as weak and unreal:


To be fair, here's a ReValver demo, it sounds fat because it's so much louder than the rest of the mix, but it's still got only fizz and "bshhhh" but no balls, no pressure.


Here's NI's RammFire, doing just the same: no balls, lifeless, just like white noise.


And here's one of your beloved Scuffham, which I find even worse, as it lacks just about anything apart from low-end rumble.


They all do it, they all sound flat and fizzy and weak and swishy, and all of them are just a slap into the face of even the cheapest "real" high-gain transistor amps, even they've got more dynamics than that.

And I think it's related to the way the (power) amps/cabs/speakers/mics are simulated.

Yesterday I recorded a lame DI track, shot it through AT3/German Gain without the cab, fed it into the FX return of my amp head and then into my isolation cabinet and recorded that again.

One speaker, one SM57 ... and it sounded real. OK, the speaker was shit for the material (weak-ass Eminence Black Powder) but even with that mid-intensive honky tone, compared to the AT3 German Gain WITH cab sim, I still got a much more true-to-life tone out of it.

That's proof enough for me. It's dem cabinet sims!

Well, to be honest none of those demos exhibit the behavior I was talking about. Also,they're all under the veil of "youtube" compression. I think you can do a lot better than those, but I will admit that the Anger amp isn't that easy to get good tones out of. I feel it's got too many damn controls!

I was actually kind of surprised by the Revalver video. I've never liked it much for my own sound but I thought that demo sounded interesting. Again, I'm not going to say, "life like" but I don't think it has to always sound like a real amp to sound good.

But I don't want this to degrade into real vs sim. That's a topic for another thread. I'm talking about the uneven quality of different sims all within Amplitube.

[zerocrossing]

Moved to Effects. If I'm missing something and you really think it should be back in Hardware, let me know.

My bad. I thought I put it in effects...

[zerocrossing]

TBH, isn't that the case with hardware amps as well. Not every amp is for every cabinet+guitar+pickups+playingstyle.

I have no experience with AT, and never will, but still not everything will be to taste.

Let's be fair.

True, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a very obvious ugly non-intended sound, not a matter of personal taste. For instance, as I mentioned, I'm not a fan of ReValver, but I don't think it has this issue and with a different set up maybe I'd like it. Guitar Rig is like that for me too. I like it on synths and stuff, not so much for guitar.

[metalifuxx]

Yesterday I recorded a lame DI track, shot it through AT3/German Gain without the cab, fed it into the FX return of my amp head and then into my isolation cabinet and recorded that again.

One speaker, one SM57 ... and it sounded real. OK, the speaker was shit for the material (weak-ass Eminence Black Powder) but even with that mid-intensive honky tone, compared to the AT3 German Gain WITH cab sim, I still got a much more true-to-life tone out of it.

Sound clip/comparison or STFU

Buy an expensive good quality signal chain or studio time, or live with the compromises of ampsims for the time being. We all know they aren't quite there yet, there is no best, it's matter of taste/opinion, and some are worse/better than others but... I think it's F'n great that you can plug into your computer at 3 a.m. and jam/record on an ampsim with headphones and not get the police called on you by your neighbors

[trimph1]

Precisely.

These were never really meant as a complete replacement of, but as a supplement to, the actual amp chain.

[zerocrossing]

So... am I the only one experiencing this phenomena? Does no one else hear it? I'll make a recording tonight. It's pretty obvious.

[Brian @ IK Multimedia]

To be honest, I have not experienced what you're talking about on the S100. I've done a few Eddie Van Halen presets that recreate his actual classic rig and settings: 1959 Super Lead, poweramp swapped with a 100w EL34, and all knobs(!) on 10. Plus a fat mid-freq boost via an EQ stompbox. And I did not get this noise. (In fact, it is shocking just how close the sound was immediately after cranking it.)

Some of the oldest "Custom" models that are held over from AmpliTube 1.0 have some of what you're talking about. But let's face it, AmpliTube is 10 years old. It is perhaps the oldest surviving VST ampsim still around. And it has retained its "fossil record" so its evolution is clearly on display. We haven't buried these old relics as others might, instead opting to leave them available for continuity with older projects. AmpliTube started out life as a handful of Marshall, Fender, and Vox models. We've updated AmpliTube with certified Fenders and a new Vox model. The Marshalls admittedly haven't gotten the same love. And though they have stood up well against the competition over all these years (Vintage Metal Lead is still my personal favorite in all of ATCS), perhaps they are starting to show a little age. What do you suggest we do about it?

[Hink]

To be honest, I have not experienced what you're talking about on the S100. I've done a few Eddie Van Halen presets that recreate his actual classic rig and settings: 1959 Super Lead, poweramp swapped with a 100w EL34, and all knobs(!) on 10. Plus a fat mid-freq boost via an EQ stompbox. And I did not get this noise. (In fact, it is shocking just how close the sound was immediately after cranking it.)

Some of the oldest "Custom" models that are held over from AmpliTube 1.0 have some of what you're talking about. But let's face it, AmpliTube is 10 years old. It is perhaps the oldest surviving VST ampsim still around. And it has retained its "fossil record" so its evolution is clearly on display. It started out life as a handful of Marshall, Fender, and Vox models. We've updated AmpliTube with certified Fenders and a new Vox model. The Marshalls admittedly haven't gotten the same love. And though they have stood up well against the competition over all these years (Vintage Metal Lead is still my personal favorite in all of ATCS), perhaps they are starting to show a little age. What do you suggest we do about it?

how about removing the older models and making them available for free in the custom shop for those who still want them?

[Brian @ IK Multimedia]

At a mere 5 to 10 Gear Credits a pop, they are available practically free in the Custom Shop already. We can't remove them and also have them available at the same time though.