Public Beta 2: Everything u-he

[pdxindy]

Sometimes when i program Diva and make a certain sound i think 'wow! that sounds like an analog synth!' but sometimes on other sounds i think 'oh, that sounds like a soft synth '. Given this i KNOW an analog sound IS possible in software, but i think Diva must continue to develop to get to 100%. Don't stop improvements just because of CPU use in real time, there is always offline render mode to add refinements to

What criteria do you use for judging whether a sound is analog or not? Analog can sound, thin, harsh, flat, boring etc


Also, I disagree... please do stop developments because of cpu use in realtime. To gain 10% more analog accuracy, will take multiple times more cpu. There is a point of diminishing returns and I think Diva has a good sweet spot between the two.

[Urs]

Hmm, I don't feel the need to make Diva sound more like the circuits she's modeled after. We were there. And then we went that tiny step further when we adedd a bit more sheen that we preferred. We believe that we actually improved the sound over the vintage counterparts, without detroying the character and behaviour.

It may sound great to add some cleverly extracted distortion from Nebula. But then it doesn't sound authentic anymore - unless you use whatever Nebula does with mixing desks and tape machines.

If anything then maybe one day we'll add console/tape/vinyl emulations to Diva. Because that's something that some people may be missing... the whole past time signal chain.

[zvenx]

70%...... GASP!!!
rsp

lol, please take my percentages with a pinch of salt... it may have been closer to 71.5%

lol. you are a HARD person to please...
I think for many of us it is high 90's and thats more than close enough for me
rsp

[djanthonyw]

Sometimes when i program Diva and make a certain sound i think 'wow! that sounds like an analog synth!' but sometimes on other sounds i think 'oh, that sounds like a soft synth '. Given this i KNOW an analog sound IS possible in software, but i think Diva must continue to develop to get to 100%. Don't stop improvements just because of CPU use in real time, there is always offline render mode to add refinements to

What criteria do you use for judging whether a sound is analog or not? Analog can sound, thin, harsh, flat, boring etc

Exactly... check out the audio examples I posted then the posts following, specifically from Don Solaris...

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... ost8840281

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... ost8841902

[David Else]

Hmm, I don't feel the need to make Diva sound more like the circuits she's modeled after. We were there. And then we went that tiny step further when we adedd a bit more sheen that we preferred. We believe that we actually improved the sound over the vintage counterparts, without detroying the character and behaviour.

It may sound great to add some cleverly extracted distortion from Nebula. But then it doesn't sound authentic anymore - unless you use whatever Nebula does with mixing desks and tape machines.

If anything then maybe one day we'll add console/tape/vinyl emulations to Diva. Because that's something that some people may be missing... the whole past time signal chain.

The sound extracted from Nebula was the signal path through a mini moog, so for at least the moog part of Diva it is totally authentic. In my opinion it makes Diva sound better, less like a computer generated sound.

pdxindy, I define 'analog' sound as something that does not sound like it was computer generated, like it is from the real world. Stick any emulation next to the original and there is a difference, the smaller the difference the better the emulation. Most plug-ins tend to sound flat, weak and sterile, analog is strong, deep and real.

As an example, I have not heard real growling floor shaking fat moog bass from Diva exactly like you would on a vintage minimoog. I don't know why this is, I am not a programmer, but people are still buying analog gear for the sound, and they are not idiots.

Hey, I love Diva, I only want her to get better as I am sure everyone does, I am not trying to knock the AMAZING work of the programmers. Its the best there is right now, and i am very happy!

[zvenx]

so you think you can tell the difference if you heard a file of each?

rsp

[David Else]

so you think you can tell the difference if you heard a file of each?

rsp

Of course, otherwise I would be insane to suggest there was one! I am only talking about the example of Diva and Nebula/AlexB Moog Filter combined. It is possible to have analog and digital sounds so similar it is impossible to tell them apart, depends on what type of sound it is.

I am really interested in all this stuff, great thread on gearslutz! After the next Diva release I will try to do a good blog post with lots of audio examples of Diva/Nebula and SRC. I will have some kind of 'can you hear the difference' blind test and see what people think.

[pdxindy]

pdxindy, I define 'analog' sound as something that does not sound like it was computer generated, like it is from the real world. Stick any emulation next to the original and there is a difference, the smaller the difference the better the emulation. Most plug-ins tend to sound flat, weak and sterile, analog is strong, deep and real.

Analog can also sound flat and sterile... there have also been a fair share of crappy analog synths made... and I have seen at least a dozen posted audio tests over the past few years where the total analog gear snob failed to consistently pick out the analog and digital examples...

I'm not saying there is no difference... but that difference is much of the time overstated and there is an assumed analog superiority when sometimes, digital sounds better, more alive and organic too.

Myself, I would say there might be as many cases where Diva sounds better than the synths it is emulating as cases where the opposite is so. The analog aficionados only ever focus on the later and never the former.

Lastly, an emulation is always at a disadvantage. It does not matter if the emulation is digital or analog, it will never be exactly the same as the original.

[Urs]

The sound extracted from Nebula was the signal path through a mini moog, so for at least the moog part of Diva it is totally authentic. In my opinion it makes Diva sound better, less like a computer generated sound.

It'll sound like one Minimoog fed through another. You need two Minimoogs to do this in reality.

Unless of course you imply that our impersonation sounds wrong, in case of which I'll suggest user error (wrong gain staging due to slightly more complex layout in Diva)

:-p

[Urs]

As an example, I have not heard real growling floor shaking fat moog bass from Diva exactly like you would on a vintage minimoog.

Do you have an audio example taken with a clean recording path?

I suspect that "real growling floor shaking fat moog bass" is achieved by a collaboration of a synthesist and a mixing engineer. Methinks that no vintage Minimoog will ever sound like this all by itself, hence never will Diva.

[sqigls]

sheeet, i could have sunk a brewski with the Ursinator. Damn.
Safe flight!

yeah, sorry, wasn't a vacation... was family stuff (sick mother in law)

Oh sorry to hear Urs.
I hope your visit made her feel a bit better.

[Urs]

As for audio comparisons... I hope we never have to do any. They're always biased one way or the other.

The only audio comparisons I've heard that indeed showed a remarkable difference between Diva and a synth she likes to impersonate were done with a Jupiter 8 Rev1, which allegedly sounds remarkably different than the Jupiter 8 Rev2 we had for reference. All other comparisons were pretty spot on - often more so than the bias of the maker intended it to be.

[V0RT3X]

As an example, I have not heard real growling floor shaking fat moog bass from Diva exactly like you would on a vintage minimoog.

Do you have an audio example taken with a clean recording path?

I suspect that "real growling floor shaking fat moog bass" is achieved by a collaboration of a synthesist and a mixing engineer. Methinks that no vintage Minimoog will ever sound like this all by itself, hence never will Diva.

I think DIVA could do that if hooked up to the right speakers.

I still have yet to find a minimoog emulation as powerful as DIVA in software. I mean the raw sound of the oscillators with a fully open filter is absolutely amazing.

I've heard the Arturia crap, and the gforce version is nice but it is nowhere near what DIVA has to offer.

Of course a real analog will always be a real analog, but DIVA is probably the best thing because you get polyphony and can have as many instances as your system can handle and IMO it does have the moog sound. Then again tons of people who have owned moogs will say that every minimoog has the tendency to sound different from the other.

Of course you'll always find someone on KVR who isn't pleased and must make it known.

I think me and about 99.5% of the people who have tried DIVA like it in the end.

[suthnear]

Sorry to break into the interesting diva discussions, but with these betas Zebra keeps showing the licence popup, even though I can see my registration details in the GUI at the same time. Is this a known issue?

p.s. it doesn't appear to affect the functionality in any way

[Urs]

Sorry to break into the interesting diva discussions, but with these betas Zebra keeps showing the licence popup, even though I can see my registration details in the GUI at the same time. Is this a known issue?

p.s. it doesn't appear to affect the functionality in any way

Yep, this happens with pre-2009/2010 licenses issued beore the switch over to the new serial number algorithm.

If you retrieve your serial number from our website's support area, you'll get a new one.

I'm currently a bit undecided. For one thing it would be good to fade the old serials out, on the other hand it may be of lesser importance if we roll out Zebra3 next year.

ZebraHZ however, which comes with The Dark Zebra soundset, requires a new Zebra2 serial number to run.