Bitwig

lentferj · Post by **lentferj** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:43 pm

larsomat wrote: This puts a lot of pressure on Bitwig. If they don't deliver amazing new features in the next 12 months, people won't renew their licence. A fair deal, if you ask me.

That's exactly how I see it. The decision for now (or in Feb) is only about spending €169 on what 2.0 delivers. And then I have one year to see if Bitwig goes on to deliver as they promised.. if not - no renewal. Period. So I will keep my complaining for february or march next year.

Soundplex · Post by **Soundplex** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:45 pm

sisarii wrote:And what happens if my sub expires right before an important bug fix? Am I forced to stay with broken software that is not my fault because I am out of luck and my sub run out days before the bug fix? Thats unless I pay for 12 months in advance just for a bug fix for example?

Has this been answered yet? This is important to me since I already experienced it with other software. Now I own some I can't use because I am not willing to pay for major bugfixes which should have been part of a stable release. This model is shit, sorry.

xanthos wrote:
dom@bitwig wrote:It is even more fair and transparent compared to us deciding "Ok, now we call it version 3 and make you pay" without you knowing how long the life cycle of version 2 will be. In that case you would not even know how long you will get updates for your 2.0 investment.

This new model enables us to completely forget about those things and just machine gun out features as we go. We thought a lot about it and decided to do that brave step as we think it is the best for both sides.

Cheers,
Dom
WRONG! You turn the facts like you want to do...because you can see it also the other way,
paying for 12 months where the customer dont know what to get - maybe NOTHING at all. (if you look at the development speed of the last 2 years..)

Unfortunately this was also the first thought I had when I read the title.

Head Under Water wrote:Oh, please - PLEASE - exclude bug fixes from the model. This is not the way to go

As far as I know Steinberg does this with Cubase. You have to pay for the new versions (.0 & .5) but they release bugfixes for the at least 1 or 2 previous ones for free as well.

So my biggest fear is to have software that doesn't run smooth after buying it (although it should've been release with a stable version). Of course I am willing to pay for new features, new sounds and so on, but not for bugfixes in that way. I automatically got this "oops, with the latest update we unfortunately introduced a major error that makes it unable to use this software but your update year is over. bad luck, invest another bucks" feeling.

tshear23 · Post by **tshear23** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:46 pm

How am I getting "free updates" if I'm paying $169 for them? Had I known you guys were switching to this model, I never would've bought Bitwig. I'm extremely disappointed.

Skrill · Post by **Skrill** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:47 pm

I won't be upgrading at this price to much cash if was the same as Reason or Cubase then I would.

johnnyboy5000 · Post by **johnnyboy5000** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:48 pm

I have no problem paying $169 per year to help fund a great innovating company that makes the best tool for music creation! If you cant pay to renew, you can use the last version. That's cool. I think this is a great solution to help fund the people who make Bitwig.

PHY6 · Post by **PHY6** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:51 pm

johnnyboy5000 wrote:I have no problem paying $169 per year to help fund a great innovating company that makes the best tool for music creation! If you cant pay to renew, you can use the last version. That's cool. I think this is a great solution to help fund the people who make Bitwig.

If only the last version was free of bugs, yes...but it's not

pekbro · Post by **pekbro** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:58 pm

I thought Microsoft was funding bitwig for us, wtf? MS cant do anything right.

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:04 pm

PHY6 wrote:
johnnyboy5000 wrote:I have no problem paying $169 per year to help fund a great innovating company that makes the best tool for music creation! If you cant pay to renew, you can use the last version. That's cool. I think this is a great solution to help fund the people who make Bitwig.
If only the last version was free of bugs, yes...but it's not

yeah, agile development - make users Product Owners so that they can define the 'acceptance criteria' and 'defintion of done'. How many users are out there - might get quite interesting ....
if the state of 'working' / 'bug-free' and 'feature implementation is complete' were easy - this license model would be ok - but then we might have one or two DAWs and not dozens of them ....

And features - word, Cubase and Logic have lots of features - if it was about the amount of features - hmmm, it is about the workflow of each user - and that is subjective and too diverse to effectively cover and satisfy.

craigtumps · Post by **craigtumps** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:09 pm

At first I thought it was weird but now after thinking about it for a while I'm not against the new pricing model. Its been a few years already with version 1 so I suppose an upgrade fee was always coming, same with most software..

Just because Bitwig doesn't have exactly the same features as other established DAW's it doesn't mean we are entitled to every update until it does have them. Look at it another way, could Ableton users say they want all upgrades for free until Ableton has VST containment to protect from crashes, same as Bitwig does? No it doesn't work like that.

I see V2 is free for users who bought since Dec 10. Well the people who bought a few months before that must be feeling pretty sick right now. Maybe the upgrade price should be staggered so people who bought it in last 6 months for example should get a cheaper upgrade price, something like that.

Also people with Bitwig 1.0 badges should get something for being crazy and awesome to buy it back then

db3 · Post by **db3** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:21 pm

Coockie1176ln wrote:Brave step or foolish! Yet to be seen

Think I know which

FantasticDUDE · Post by **FantasticDUDE** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:34 pm

Idk guys.
I think the best compromise between users and devs can be achieved this way
subscription for features/devices and exiting stuff like that
bug fixes for all who bought bitwig.
And discount/free update for very old or beta users. I'm not a beta user and such but make free update for those who bought bitwig just now and make pay the most loyal users who with bitwig since early days is just not fair.
imho

dnbhallifax · Post by **dnbhallifax** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:35 pm

Well as someone who was waiting for version 2, and been eyeballing Bitwig as an alternative to Live this is the most unappealing license model I've seen.

As obnoxious as Avid's model is, at least it can be justified in the sense that it's an industry standard from tracking to post production... But an Ableton Live-esque EDM focused app for $169 a year?
That makes Ableton's ridiculous price of $799 seem reasonable.

This is the kind of thing that sends your original customers packing and keeps potential new ones, such as myself far away...
You guys are absolutely out of your mind...

dnbhallifax · Post by **dnbhallifax** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:44 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:It is important to note that it is not a yearly fee or subscription!
You buy a full license, and on top of that you get 12 months of free upgrades, even if those are major version number upgrades. After those 12 months, you get to keep you license and you can use it as long as you want and renew your license if we introduce a feature you are interested in.

Cheers,
Dom

If any part of the service expires after a period of time IT IS a subscription no matter what you call it.

Frankly, saying it isn't is insulting the intelligence of your users, and insulting to someone like myself who's been considering it for some time now.

And what if your yearly cycle doesn't include a version number change? You've just paid for bug fixes which any other reputable developer understands is part of the price of admission.

johnnyboy5000 · Post by **johnnyboy5000** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:51 pm

I don't like having to pay to per year but, versions 2 looks amazing! What's the alternative, going to back to Ableton? I'm really tired of Live. Ableton Link is a cool feature but, I don't expect anything as innovating in version 10 as in Bitwig 2.

nortle · Post by **nortle** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:53 pm

dnbhallifax wrote:
dom@bitwig wrote:It is important to note that it is not a yearly fee or subscription!
You buy a full license, and on top of that you get 12 months of free upgrades, even if those are major version number upgrades. After those 12 months, you get to keep you license and you can use it as long as you want and renew your license if we introduce a feature you are interested in.

Cheers,
Dom
And what if your yearly cycle doesn't include a version number change? You've just paid for bug fixes which any other reputable developer understands is part of the price of admission.

But it isnt just bugfixes as stated out. There will come bigger features than just bugfixes + smaller updates.

Then go, grab Ableton 10 and wait 4 years for 11 and everything is fine. As far as I can see its abletons sampler that is most significant. Then link, some max devices . Live 9 was released spring 2013. That features (except push updates) could be delivered with 9 right from start. So thats how you want it?

Bitwig

KVR Audio

License model no way !!!