Waves - What can we do?

[profaudio]

Some interesting thoughts here on misleading sales tactics.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AudioProductio ... n4y4/waves

Thanks for the heads up. Glad to see more people than me are p*ssed about their bs sales tactics. I also took this topic to their Waves Audiophiles facebook group. So far no one from Waves has responded, but the comments and discussions so far were pretty constructive and insightful.

At least we know we're on the right side of history lol

[Greybox Audio]

:deleted

[Forgotten]

Thanks for the heads up on these deals - this is great!

[Greybox Audio]

;deleted

[vurt]

Thanks for the heads up on these deals - this is great!

TODAY ONLY!!!

that's ok, i got paid yesterday

[koolkeys]

I thought I was clear, I'll repeat what I said:
They change the prices and discounts to pretend the cost has gone down when it remains the same or even goes up.

This is called deception and it's illegal.
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/bound ... -concerns/

So what are you going to do about it?

For the time being I'm settled at bitching and moaning. I'm also interested in dialog with the community so that people become informed, and if anyone has something to add or a different perspective I'd like to hear it.

I also encourage anyone that is a paying customer and feels wronged to report it to the authorities. And if I see a class action lawsuit forming up I may sign up as a member.

I think that covers what's on my docket at this stage.

For those looking to report, in the US the FTC works at a federal level and many states also have specific laws. Here is the FTC stuff:
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-r ... -complaint

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?S ... 3&rgn=div5

[...] where an artificial, inflated price was established for the purpose of enabling the subsequent offer of a large reduction—the “bargain” being advertised is a false one; the purchaser is not receiving the unusual value he expects. In such a case, the “reduced” price is, in reality, probably just the seller's regular price.

[...] An advertiser might use a price at which he never offered the article at all; he might feature a price which was not used in the regular course of business, or which was not used in the recent past but at some remote period in the past, without making disclosure of that fact; he might use a price that was not openly offered to the public, or that was not maintained for a reasonable length of time, but was immediately reduced.

[...] If the former price is set forth in the advertisement, [...] the advertiser should make certain that the former price is not a fictitious one

And this so far is about their deceptive pricing. However, in the world of hidden fees I believe WUP is also out of control. It's not ok to force people to accept a maintenance fee that is hidden from view at the time of purchase. And if the maintenance fee is mandatory in an industry in which maintenance fees are not common, it should be disclosed as part of the advertising.

Those FTC documents are not laws. Those are guides designed to help consumers, but they are not actually statutes. If you read the introduction section to the guides portion, you will see that it is a guide and nothing more. It says that you still need to apply applicable statutes if you take action, and it gets a whole lot more complicated from there. It doesn't spell out any specific laws, but instead helps consumers see different tactics that could be considered misleading.

I highly doubt anyone here can legitimately make a legal state-based claim, and even less so be able to claim much actual loss (which is kind of the point of consumer protection laws, not to punish a company because somebody on a forum was mad that plugins are always on sale). These things require context and I am pretty sure that Waves has likely consulted legal professionals on this issue.

Now, you don't have to like their methods. They might be a little annoying. But nothing really needs to be done. Are they hurting anyone? No.

Brent

[Forgotten]

Now, you don't have to like their methods. They might be a little annoying. But nothing really needs to be done.

The whole thing seems like a rather pointless call to arms to me.

[koolkeys]

Now, you don't have to like their methods. They might be a little annoying. But nothing really needs to be done.

The whole thing seems like a rather pointless call to arms to me.

It really is. Agreed.

Brent

[profaudio]

Now, you don't have to like their methods. They might be a little annoying. But nothing really needs to be done.

The whole thing seems like a rather pointless call to arms to me.

It really is. Agreed.

Brent

Laws or no laws they have been caught lying and misleading people with their sales tactics.

The fact that you are happy being lied to makes no difference to the other people who are NOT HAPPY - so in fact you posting in here just to undermine others is the "rather pointless" action.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/c ... dex_en.htm

When sellers tell you that a particular offer will only be available for a very limited time, they might be trying to pressure you to buy before taking the time to make an informed choice. It is unfair to claim that an offer is limited in time when that is not in fact the case.

As pointed out Waves's claims of "limited" "lowest price ever" are just farcical.

Simon from Belgium wanted to buy a bicycle. He found a special offer valid for just 24 hours on a Dutch online shop.

The bicycle wasn't exactly what he was looking for, but he didn't have time to compare as the offer was valid only for such a short time. He quickly decided to buy the bicycle to take advantage of the 50% discount.

To his surprise, when he browsed the internet shop a week later he saw exactly the same promotion. Simon realised it was a false offer to trick him into buying the bicycle. He complained to the trader but didn't get a response.

He then went to the European Consumer Centre in Belgium who transferred the case to their colleagues in the Netherlands. A short time later the Dutch centre told Simon that, thanks to their action, the trader had corrected the website.

Again fits with their "8 units available at this price" COMPLETE AND UTTER LIE.

[Greybox Audio]

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[ramseysounds]

To the OP - it’s called choice. Thankfully Ive picked up many $29 plug-ins through choice. I really don’t see what your issue is. Or we could always pay more?

[profaudio]

To the OP - it’s called choice. Thankfully Ive picked up many $29 plug-ins through choice. I really don’t see what your issue is. Or we could always pay more?

Straight back at you - I really don't see what your issue is either?

The OP has made his "choice" based on the lying advertising tactics also - to make a thread letting others know about these 'business' practices.

Is your "choice" the only one that matters? Or "choice" only refers to money - If you see an issue with a corporate company you just 'shut up' & 'don't buy'?

Seems like the only choice (without being socially ostracised) is to stay quiet & follow the herd...

[Gamma-UT]

If you want to do something, make a list - lowest price available from Waves so far for each bundle and plugin. Or at least the popular ones (Gold, Platinum) as it's a frickin' long list otherwise. And bung the standard codes like YNY23 at the bottom. If anyone wants to know if it's the lowest price, they can look at the list. (It will probably be $29).

The reality with Waves is that their pricing is now so out of whack with things like WUP and their bundle structure that one of them is going to break at some point - I'm surprised it's taken as long as it has given they're trying to stick with their old mechanisms amid the last-chance sales. Competitors don't look at a company doing continual buy-now-gone-tomorrow-oh-maybe-not firesales as a sign of glowing health but of desperation. Getting Waves to clean up their ad copy seems more like a distraction than anything.

[ramseysounds]

To the OP - it’s called choice. Thankfully Ive picked up many $29 plug-ins through choice. I really don’t see what your issue is. Or we could always pay more?

Straight back at you - I really don't see what your issue is either?

The OP has made his "choice" based on the lying advertising tactics also - to make a thread letting others know about these 'business' practices.

Is your "choice" the only one that matters? Or "choice" only refers to money - If you see an issue with a corporate company you just 'shut up' & 'don't buy'?

Seems like the only choice (without being socially ostracised) is to stay quiet & follow the herd...

Just reading through some of your 37 posts, it seems most are whining about sales. You clearly have a vendetta against internet sales and seem to be on a one man crusade to rid the world of evil. Good luck with that. I’m off to look at Waves fantastic sales offerings

[profaudio]

To the OP - it’s called choice. Thankfully Ive picked up many $29 plug-ins through choice. I really don’t see what your issue is. Or we could always pay more?

Straight back at you - I really don't see what your issue is either?

The OP has made his "choice" based on the lying advertising tactics also - to make a thread letting others know about these 'business' practices.

Is your "choice" the only one that matters? Or "choice" only refers to money - If you see an issue with a corporate company you just 'shut up' & 'don't buy'?

Seems like the only choice (without being socially ostracised) is to stay quiet & follow the herd...

Just reading through some of your 37 posts, it seems most are whining about sales. You clearly have a vendetta against internet sales and seem to be on a one man crusade to rid the world of evil. Good luck with that. I’m off to look at Waves fantastic sales offerings

Just reading your 2 posts it's clear you have PERSONAL "vendettas" with individuals.

Post 1: "I really don’t see what your issue is."

Post 2: "Just reading through some of your 37 posts"