it probably has pissed off a lot of nfr-ers, reckon only a very small percentage of users post here & i'll bet the mackie site got hit with a lot of people expecting to be able to do some kind of upgrade online.
For the U.S. dudes theres the voucher for compensation (which I think is an outstanding move - & something i personally would never have expected), but for the international users - nada, just the rush of anticipation as they go to the mackie site, likkle palms all sweaty, trembling with excitement & then.... 'the computer says no' (any of you watch little britain?).
Not the best incentive to get them out to the stores looking to buy the bundle is it really? tad unprofessional perhaps?
The T1 NFR User lobby
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
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- KVRAF
- 1615 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
Not false advertising period don't even think about suing. Mackie screwed up - the company must not be terribly well run unfortunately. But they have dealt more or less fairly with all. Personally I think it would be a nice gesture (and maybe profitable) to let the NFR folks have the "no plug" T2 for $100 - and they should figure out the Europe thing. My guess: they will address these concerns - just give them some time (theyh are a slow organization) and lets turn down the volume on both sides.
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
now they're all stood with their little runny noses pressed up to the window, watching the U.S. nf-ers dance around with glee holding their vouchers in their plump well fed hands. Watching the elite 'true' owners turn cartwheels as they download their upgrade & get an even fatter voucher from father-mackie-claus.
stood their shivering, with tears running down their weathered grey strange likkle foreign faces, shaking their bony fists, peeking out of their wretched threadbare hand me down shirts, crying out to the strange gods or their even stranger lands.
'why oh why father mackie-claus did you tease us so unjustly why????'
For god's sake have a heart - take pity on them
stood their shivering, with tears running down their weathered grey strange likkle foreign faces, shaking their bony fists, peeking out of their wretched threadbare hand me down shirts, crying out to the strange gods or their even stranger lands.
'why oh why father mackie-claus did you tease us so unjustly why????'
For god's sake have a heart - take pity on them
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I've already stated it, and I'll state it again-- I'm an international customer, too. But I still have enough sanity to not freak out over a simple AND reasonable error. I don't see it as "appalling" (holy hyperbole!!) or even unfair. I just see it as "Guess we have a bit longer to wait than the US."
Don't cry just because Tommy down the street got a Big Wheels (tm) before you did.
Rather than be "terribly upset", I suspect that international NFR owners, upon discovering that there was no offer after all, thought to themselves either "Heh, I guess they accidentally mailed us, too" or "Hmm... I don't get it. I think I'll give technical support a call" at which point in time they would be informed, "Our apologies, the European rebate hasn't been finalized yet."
Not everybody in this world is so reactionary or unreasonable.
Greg
Don't cry just because Tommy down the street got a Big Wheels (tm) before you did.
Rather than be "terribly upset", I suspect that international NFR owners, upon discovering that there was no offer after all, thought to themselves either "Heh, I guess they accidentally mailed us, too" or "Hmm... I don't get it. I think I'll give technical support a call" at which point in time they would be informed, "Our apologies, the European rebate hasn't been finalized yet."
Not everybody in this world is so reactionary or unreasonable.
Greg
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 693 posts since 21 Oct, 2003 from Madrid
Again sorry for the mistake!!!whyterabbyt wrote:Germ, that quote is NOT by Lunch Money, it was platinumears, and I would like to insist that you remove that misattribution immediately and apologise to LM.
Germ
And for the record. This thread has become quite an amazing and interesting melting pot of ideas and opinions. I have not been so amused (in a polite manner) in a forum in a looooong time
Thanks all for dropping by and venting off your mind.I know I will wait and see what Mackie has to say about the international boxes and the NFR users.
Germ.
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- KVRist
- 195 posts since 31 Dec, 2004
How about they give us NFRers the download for $110? then you "shoulda paid up front" guys will still be ahead and therefore, less cheap(you did buy tracktion, didnt you?)and still pleanty smug about it all.
I love free software by the way, but the day this crap makes me money, Im gonna BUY everything I can.
I love free software by the way, but the day this crap makes me money, Im gonna BUY everything I can.
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
just a thought to throw into the pot, but assuming Mackie would rather move entirely to a boxed 'from store only' Tracktion model, which seems likely at this point; allowing NFR users to become download only users has the rather undersirable effect of greatly increasing the number of download users to keep happy come T3 time.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Hmmm... As an NFR owner, they offered me a $30. rebate on the boxed version. So I guess that would be about $115?? I have all the free stuff, that is offered with the boxed version already, but I'd say the Mackie plugs are probably worth $100. so I may buy it anyway! ...But, saying T1 was free is a little misleading AFAIK... because on the Mac side at least... I never could get it to work well enough to call it MY host. Regardless of price... Dropping the first beat on a looping clip, was just one (of a few things) I couldn't live with. and The people who seemed to love T1, I got the impression... worked with audio (more) so maybe they didn't care? But it wasn't for me...
T2, in the time I've had the demo, I've actually grown to like, with a skinnable interface, and the dropped note bug not an issue (on my machine anyway)... I like the way it handles audio a lot better than Logic... Which although I've had for a long time, I still am not "in love" with! So, I guess I'd rather have a downloadable, T2 w/Mackie plugs only, for $80. as an NFR... but If I have to take the boxed for $115. with the rebate... So be it!
Still a good deal, considering I have about $800. into Logic, and $400 in Reason!
(now if they would just add AU support)
T2, in the time I've had the demo, I've actually grown to like, with a skinnable interface, and the dropped note bug not an issue (on my machine anyway)... I like the way it handles audio a lot better than Logic... Which although I've had for a long time, I still am not "in love" with! So, I guess I'd rather have a downloadable, T2 w/Mackie plugs only, for $80. as an NFR... but If I have to take the boxed for $115. with the rebate... So be it!
Still a good deal, considering I have about $800. into Logic, and $400 in Reason!
(now if they would just add AU support)
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
I use loads of MIDI (I earn my living with it!)DHR53 wrote: The people who seemed to love T1, I got the impression... worked with audio (more) so maybe they didn't care?
Even in T1 there were no show-stoppers as far as I'm concerned.
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
I really don't understand how anyone would not be annoyed or at least distracted by a drum loop playing back, with the first beat missing... But I guess it's all in the way you work?? Maybe, if I didn't rely on looping sections to create a total composition, it probably wouldn't have bothered me... but as such it was... distracting to say the least... But hey, seems to be resolved for the most part, and I love my new skin so... Let's move on! 
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- KVRian
- 1161 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
Thankfully, this has turned into a very informative post. So, just a couple of points I've been thinking about.
Re Tracktion's magazine advertising: I live in Australia, so our music magazines are 2 or 3 months behind those of Europe and the US. They also cost an arm and a leg over here. I haven't seen any Tracktion ads in any of them.
Re is it fair to NFR users: WEll, for me it's not even about NFR or not. Offering a lite download is just a good way of attracting many new users. There are plenty of people out there who have not even heard of Tracktion and if they don't have access to a boxed version, they're out of luck.
Re the problems of a boxed version: WEll, I can understand that they're treating it like they treat their hardware, but this is fast becoming an online and on deman world. I'm sure there are plenty of people who go down to the local music retauiler and buy it boxed and will be happy, but the marketing is restrictive, presumably because they need to shift so many units to please the 3rd party devs. The other thing is this...the likes of Sonar, Cubase, P5 and other big names actually offer good loop support and more importantly, great timestretch capabilities. T2, as yet, does not incorporate them. If they're aiming at a pro hardware market now, they might miss the mark by not addressing these issues very very soon.
Re patches and upgrades: If I buy the boxed set and they release T2.5 with bugfixes, will I be ablwe to simply download a patch online or will I need to upgrade to a whole new box?
Re, is this about getting something for free and then whining: ell, I can't speak for everyone, but it seems to me that the majority of angry users posting here are not concerned about any kind of upgrade path, they just want access to an unlockable download and in this age of IT, I think that's a very fair question. It seems a colossal waste of money to me to box all these CDs up and send them across countries. But then, I'm not Mackie.
Re overhype for T2: Mackie move really slow. That much is obvious. A generous upgrade path was stated but never clearly priced. It has not been clear for months how they were going to handle distribution or price. And now that T1 is no longer available, we are hit with the sorry truth. That is bad marketing. You can run all the ad campaigns you want, but when you do not offer your potential customers (never mind NFR for a moment) a clear way to access product outside of the USA and do not state your pricepoints, you have made a clear error in judgement. If I am not mistaken, Steinberg actually do not play these games. They do clearly give upgrade options, state prices and offer wide availability. It is a well structured and worked out plan. Mackie seem to have botched in several areas and this has caused no small confusion for people like myself.
Re those people who go on about 'tough titties': Well, that's just simply a silly attitude. You can go on knowing that you are in the elite, but that kinda defeats the purpose of exposing Tracktion to a global audience. This forum has turned into an us versus them factional war and it's just dumb. All because Mackie decided to do a slow slow striptease and we were not given enough information.
Steve
Re Tracktion's magazine advertising: I live in Australia, so our music magazines are 2 or 3 months behind those of Europe and the US. They also cost an arm and a leg over here. I haven't seen any Tracktion ads in any of them.
Re is it fair to NFR users: WEll, for me it's not even about NFR or not. Offering a lite download is just a good way of attracting many new users. There are plenty of people out there who have not even heard of Tracktion and if they don't have access to a boxed version, they're out of luck.
Re the problems of a boxed version: WEll, I can understand that they're treating it like they treat their hardware, but this is fast becoming an online and on deman world. I'm sure there are plenty of people who go down to the local music retauiler and buy it boxed and will be happy, but the marketing is restrictive, presumably because they need to shift so many units to please the 3rd party devs. The other thing is this...the likes of Sonar, Cubase, P5 and other big names actually offer good loop support and more importantly, great timestretch capabilities. T2, as yet, does not incorporate them. If they're aiming at a pro hardware market now, they might miss the mark by not addressing these issues very very soon.
Re patches and upgrades: If I buy the boxed set and they release T2.5 with bugfixes, will I be ablwe to simply download a patch online or will I need to upgrade to a whole new box?
Re, is this about getting something for free and then whining: ell, I can't speak for everyone, but it seems to me that the majority of angry users posting here are not concerned about any kind of upgrade path, they just want access to an unlockable download and in this age of IT, I think that's a very fair question. It seems a colossal waste of money to me to box all these CDs up and send them across countries. But then, I'm not Mackie.
Re overhype for T2: Mackie move really slow. That much is obvious. A generous upgrade path was stated but never clearly priced. It has not been clear for months how they were going to handle distribution or price. And now that T1 is no longer available, we are hit with the sorry truth. That is bad marketing. You can run all the ad campaigns you want, but when you do not offer your potential customers (never mind NFR for a moment) a clear way to access product outside of the USA and do not state your pricepoints, you have made a clear error in judgement. If I am not mistaken, Steinberg actually do not play these games. They do clearly give upgrade options, state prices and offer wide availability. It is a well structured and worked out plan. Mackie seem to have botched in several areas and this has caused no small confusion for people like myself.
Re those people who go on about 'tough titties': Well, that's just simply a silly attitude. You can go on knowing that you are in the elite, but that kinda defeats the purpose of exposing Tracktion to a global audience. This forum has turned into an us versus them factional war and it's just dumb. All because Mackie decided to do a slow slow striptease and we were not given enough information.
Steve
Mixcraft 8 Recording Studio : Reason 10
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
There are easy and quick ways around this. I dunno why it should cripple a creative person.DHR53 wrote:I really don't understand how anyone would not be annoyed or at least distracted by a drum loop playing back, with the first beat missing... But I guess it's all in the way you work??
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- KVRist
- 113 posts since 6 Jan, 2005
hardwired wrote:"Congratulations! As a registered Tracktion v1 user, not only are you the first to know that the new Tracktion 2 Music Production Software is now officially available, but we are pleased to offer you exclusive upgrade options."
Are you a lawyer? IANAL, but I don't see this as misleading at all...clearly it is just as it says, the options are indeed "exclusive"...foreign NFR users are the ones excluded from online upgrade (as I understand it).hardwired wrote:By doing what Mackie did, they effectively broke the law. Their offence is false advertising. In Washington which is where LOUD Technologies Inc. is located, there is a law to help protect consumers from false advertising and this would definately qualify as that.
Now, it *might* be illegal (again, IANAL) to purposely quote a specific upgrade price in an email to you, and then deny you the opportunity to take advantage of that offer once you've clicked through. But even there you have to prove the company had an intent to defraud, otherwise it's considered an "honest" mistake, sort of like a misprint in a newspaper ad.
Think about it, how many big "false advertising" lawsuits have you read about lately? Caveat emptor still applies, in the US as well as in cyberspace.
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- KVRist
- 415 posts since 14 Dec, 2004
I will be waitin' atleast 2 months for it to hit the Stores in Australia, and when it does I will be paying at least $350 AUD for it... Way more than USD or EURO's....So yeah... I would love an online purchase option!!!!
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Are you implying I'm not a creative person? That's an observation you would only make if you didn't know me... The fact is... I've been an artist (professionally) and musician (casually) for most of my life... I've been called a lot of things... But never lacking in creativity!Lunch Money wrote:There are easy and quick ways around this. I dunno why it should cripple a creative person.DHR53 wrote:I really don't understand how anyone would not be annoyed or at least distracted by a drum loop playing back, with the first beat missing... But I guess it's all in the way you work??
I could solve that problem in T1 by simply turning off looping. But then the software wouldn't be working the way I do. I would prefer to use my "Creativity" making the music... not operating the software
