[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[simmo75]

I don’t think they’ll try and make this right, because they blatantly don’t think they’ve done anything wrong!
And have some rather protective super fans trying to dispel any wrong doings, haha.
It’s actually funny now.

[pekbro]

Sooner or later they will put time limits on those upgrade codes. They don't want you to be able to pay whenever you like. That's the main issue behind all of this I'd wager.

For me it's easy as I prefer Live overall... *shrug

[Cyoon]

Their numbers aren't actually too bad in 2021, maybe not extraordinary well, but they have quite a lot of free capital reserve, and also a reasonable net income (judging by their past). Economy is what people worry of course, people in Germany are confronted with raised advanced payments for utilities expense like gas and electrics by up to 400 %. Then we have 11 % inflation this month, so the costs raise a lot currently. Also due to corona many artists lost their income, might got a different job instead then and so on and on. I agree they could have communicated better, but their situation isn't too bad yet I think. Still, their planning might had to be adjusted to justify the risks coming up. But that's entering the speculation part now.

[ollie.rollover]

Let’s start a union and elect a German speaking representative to negotiate with Bitwig on our behalf!!! Or are we taking this too far now?!?

[Winstontaneous]

I generally don’t participate in internet pile-ons, and I have no emotional reaction, but what Bitwig did with the Spectral release seems misguided and probably illegal in some jurisdictions in terms of how the update subscription was worded. I use Bitwig as a playground but get a lot more finished in Ableton Live and Logic.

I bought Bitwig 1.x but sold due to long-standing Mac performance issues fixed in later 3.x versions. Then rebought last year, as it is I’ve still had deal-breaking endless plugin scanning issues for the last few versions in 2022. Whatever goodwill Bitwig may have had as the scrappy creative underdogs is probably gone for good. Will def think hard on whether I’ll buy another update plan.

[pdxindy]

Who knows. It's all conjecture right now especially when trying to project what's in the mind of an unknown number of strangers. I can only speak for myself and that this all inspired me to open up Ableton 11.2 / Max for Live and have very much enjoyed the last 24 hours with it. It's been a while and some great updates - and it reminds me how much easier the flat gray is on my eyes, personally. The MIDI Comping works great too!! And I finally spent a few minutes learning how the MFL modulation system works -- a bit more clunky, but obviously some very unique devices there, very flexible and an active community sharing new devices. We'll see - I can't guarantee what I'll think in 11 months though, that's true. But, I can pretty much make due with any DAW

I have Live 11 Suite, but never used it. It was my backup in case Bitwig didn't make it. I always liked the flat grey.

I would so miss Bitwig's modulation. Ableton modulation is very clunky for a number of reasons... once you modulate a parameter you can no longer directly edit it. And of course there is nothing like the overview you have in Bitwig's Inspector. And for me the biggest thing with modulation is that in Bitwig it can be per voice and that is not possible in Live nor M4L. I basically never used modulation in Live and just used VST's.

At this point, if Bitwig were to fail as a company, I would go with Logic, not Live. Logic has built-in pitch correction (Live doesn't). Logic has tempo mapping, (Live doesn't). Logic has my favorite Step Sequencer I have used. Logic has aliased clips and so on. Logic has the stuff that I miss in both Bitwig and Live.

[kultschar]

If money is tight and plan purchases are getting thin etc then why the hell dont they add some missing basic DAW features that people have been wanting for x years. Then the DAW would be on par or well ahead of the competition and entice new users across.

[simmo75]

Who knows. It's all conjecture right now especially when trying to project what's in the mind of an unknown number of strangers. I can only speak for myself and that this all inspired me to open up Ableton 11.2 / Max for Live and have very much enjoyed the last 24 hours with it. It's been a while and some great updates - and it reminds me how much easier the flat gray is on my eyes, personally. The MIDI Comping works great too!! And I finally spent a few minutes learning how the MFL modulation system works -- a bit more clunky, but obviously some very unique devices there, very flexible and an active community sharing new devices. We'll see - I can't guarantee what I'll think in 11 months though, that's true. But, I can pretty much make due with any DAW

I have Live 11 Suite, but never used it. It was my backup in case Bitwig didn't make it. I always liked the flat grey.

I would so miss Bitwig's modulation. Ableton modulation is very clunky for a number of reasons... once you modulate a parameter you can no longer directly edit it. And of course there is nothing like the overview you have in Bitwig's Inspector. And for me the biggest thing with modulation is that in Bitwig it can be per voice and that is not possible in Live nor M4L. I basically never used modulation in Live and just used VST's.

At this point, if Bitwig were to fail as a company, I would go with Logic, not Live. Logic has built-in pitch correction (Live doesn't). Logic has tempo mapping, (Live doesn't). Logic has my favorite Step Sequencer I have used. Logic has aliased clips and so on. Logic has the stuff that I miss in both Bitwig and Live.

Logic also has free updates!
Not Bigwig's annual subscription and add ons and whatever else they decide they want to charge for…

[Phil B]

Some have raised the issue of trust and seem to only want to have a business relationship with a company that operates in what they consider to be a totally ethical manner.

Who said "totally"? And what does it have to do with "ethics"?

it may be begging the question: are there any companies that have enough integrity to trust perfectly?

Ah, I see. You exaggerated so you could make the "counter" argument that nobody's perfect.

I agree - nobody's perfect.

And I agree that many companies have done much worse things than what Bitwig has done.

It's just that neither of those points are relevant to my position.

Bitwig breached their contract with me. It's that simple. I choose not to enter into new contracts with people who breached their contracts with me already when (1) they are asking me to advance the funds again and (2) have not acknowledged their breach and explained how they intend to correct their behavior in the future. It's not an ethics point, it's a business and risk management point that I would lean on in any competitive market with quality options.

To me the fact is clear that they breached the contract. Whether that bothers other people, is up to them.

[Phil B]

I have Live 11 Suite, but never used it. It was my backup in case Bitwig didn't make it. I always liked the flat grey.

I would so miss Bitwig's modulation. Ableton modulation is very clunky for a number of reasons... once you modulate a parameter you can no longer directly edit it. And of course there is nothing like the overview you have in Bitwig's Inspector. And for me the biggest thing with modulation is that in Bitwig it can be per voice and that is not possible in Live nor M4L. I basically never used modulation in Live and just used VST's.

At this point, if Bitwig were to fail as a company, I would go with Logic, not Live. Logic has built-in pitch correction (Live doesn't). Logic has tempo mapping, (Live doesn't). Logic has my favorite Step Sequencer I have used. Logic has aliased clips and so on. Logic has the stuff that I miss in both Bitwig and Live.

It's definitely clunkier. Correct you can no longer directly edit it, but the modulators do seem to allow you to set min and max at least. But, yes agree with your points. That's why I have Bitwig!

I've been using Bitwig and Logic over the past few years - and I would keep using Logic. The one thing that really bothers me with Logic is that you can't (well, at least I can't) arm tracks and record them while the transport is already running. I record the modular a lot in long initial brainstorming sessions and sometimes I just want to add in another track to record without stopping (and I don't want to just record every inputs from the start). I forgot to check if Ableton can arm tracks on the fly like that ... Bitwig can definitely do it.

[pizzatime]

it’s thousands of users.

I doubt that... maybe 10% of that, plus a bunch of sockpuppets

I’m not sure bitwig even has thousands of users, but it’s pretty unfathomable to think that they will not lose meaningful revenue from their breach of the EULA and lack of mea culpa. The sheer number of online commenters has surprised me. Has to be at least 200 unique online commenters expressing disappointment, including some pretty notable and influential people. That’s got to represent the views of a meaningful portion of their user base. 12%? 50% 99%? Any of those could be pretty impactful

Who are the notable and influential people expressing disappointment?

[pizzatime]

Just seen in a comment on Youtube:

What they could have done is: "Hello customers. We have created a collection of spectral devices that we are really proud of. We had planned to add these devices to 4.4 but our financial situation is really bad at the moment because of the overall situation. Please support us by buying these devices as an add on. You will gain early access and it will help us a lot to keep the dream of Bitwig alive. Don't worry, we will add these device later in another update for all of our users as a small thank you for staying with us in these strange days. Nobody will be left behind. Sincerely your Bitwig team".

If tight money really is the issue then I think that something like this would have been a very honest way to ask the users for help. A kind of "early access" system to support the team sounds like a very good idea to me to raise some money and I might have bought the devices just to support them.

That wouldn't have been a good idea at all.. would have spooked people from buying a yearly update thinking they were about to fold..

[Phil B]

it’s thousands of users.

I doubt that... maybe 10% of that, plus a bunch of sockpuppets

I’m not sure bitwig even has thousands of users, but it’s pretty unfathomable to think that they will not lose meaningful revenue from their breach of the EULA and lack of mea culpa. The sheer number of online commenters has surprised me. Has to be at least 200 unique online commenters expressing disappointment, including some pretty notable and influential people. That’s got to represent the views of a meaningful portion of their user base. 12%? 50% 99%? Any of those could be pretty impactful

Who are the notable and influential people expressing disappointment?

Several you tubers that make bitwig videos

[_leras]

Don't worry we will make sure they lose 3 customers for every existing one who tolerates abuse/fraud.

Wow. You must be really fun at parties.

At worst you maybe miss out on a plug in. (If you actually have a current upgrade plan). And your reaction is you want Bitwig to suffer.

Lighten up. I've been using Bitwig today and it is still amazing.

[_leras]

I generally don’t participate in internet pile-ons, and I have no emotional reaction, but

Even though there are much worse things going on, decided to make an exception today.

I am optimistic that upcoming updates will mean the upgrade plans are still good value. They may even rectify this slip as well.