Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[chk071]

The more I play with it, the more i love it. Oscillator morph it super fun Love these FM modes, they may go absolutely crazy but still sound good. No way to control unison stereo spread? Or is it hidden somewhere?

Not spotted that. Only the various fixed stereo unison options.

Didn't find that either. I really wished they implemented stereo oscillators (for all waveforms), and a unison spread AND stereo spread parameter.

[Cinebient]

[I know many will disagree and i said it more than one time but i still found no synth where i get such smooth interpolations between the waves like in Dune 2. Even wavetables with just 2 waveforms and slow modulation added to morph between them sounds great while i always get a kind of microstepping with other synths (yes...beside Zebra 2 maybe) in this case.

I really don't get what you mean with that "microstepping" thing. In Largo e.g., the interpolation between waves in a wavetable is absolutely smooth, i don't hear any microstepping. If you want, you can post some sound example of that phenomene, maybe it becomes more clear then. I don't really see why any synth would microstep, because i don't think that waveform morphing is really THAT difficult to implement.

I don't ever used Largo so i can't comment on this. Just the synths i mentioned.
Also there is no need to discuss about taste.
Maybe it's in the wavetable itself or whatever for me but i just don't like most synths here beside Dune 2 (and Zebra 2).
It was just my personal meaning and is of course worthless for others.
It was my fault to start something like "micro stepping" because i don't know how i could describe it better. For me it sounds just like that Dune 2 has much more higher resolution when it comes to waveform morphing. A bit like 7bit midi to 14bit.
But how i said it could be the wavetables itself. I don't like most in Serum but like nearly all in Dune 2.

[Ingonator]

The more I play with it, the more i love it. Oscillator morph it super fun Love these FM modes, they may go absolutely crazy but still sound good. No way to control unison stereo spread? Or is it hidden somewhere?

Not spotted that. Only the various fixed stereo unison options.

Didn't find that either. I really wished they implemented stereo oscillators (for all waveforms), and a unison spread AND stereo spread parameter.

If that's what you search for the Stereo Hypersaw modes (like all Unison modes) works with all waveforms, not just Sawtooth. It does not seem to be possible to set the stero width with those.
I used the Stero hyperxsaw modes for mopst of my patches and often using a single osc was enough to get big/fat sounds. The "Detune" knob in the Oscs is to detune the Unison modes.

[Ingonator]

[I know many will disagree and i said it more than one time but i still found no synth where i get such smooth interpolations between the waves like in Dune 2. Even wavetables with just 2 waveforms and slow modulation added to morph between them sounds great while i always get a kind of microstepping with other synths (yes...beside Zebra 2 maybe) in this case.

I really don't get what you mean with that "microstepping" thing. In Largo e.g., the interpolation between waves in a wavetable is absolutely smooth, i don't hear any microstepping. If you want, you can post some sound example of that phenomene, maybe it becomes more clear then. I don't really see why any synth would microstep, because i don't think that waveform morphing is really THAT difficult to implement.

I had entioned this earlier but the "Fade" knob in the Icarus soc section controls the interpolation quality with the est at a maximum value.

For using just a few waveforms in a table you get the best results when combining the Fade parameter with adding the crossfading feature in the wavetable editor to create additional interpolated waveforms between your origional ones (with 2 waveforms this creates a kind of "PWM"). Crossfading is fopund at the "MIX" menu at teh left of the wavetable editor. This will be done with the currently selected waveforms. Selecting multiiple waveform from the table is done by e.g. clikcing at the strat waveform, holding the mouse button, dragging the mouse to the end aveform and reeasing the mouse button. Crossfading from the MIX menu will then be added to the selection. The bars at the right of those emnus at the left usually represent an amount with which the selected feature should be added while that bar does not habe a function for all features.

Those menusbesides others also contain msot of the the morph modes available in the oscillator section.

[Pure-fire]

need to tell Markus to added in Electra2 generation random custom waves or wavetables, as in Icarus.

[chk071]

[I know many will disagree and i said it more than one time but i still found no synth where i get such smooth interpolations between the waves like in Dune 2. Even wavetables with just 2 waveforms and slow modulation added to morph between them sounds great while i always get a kind of microstepping with other synths (yes...beside Zebra 2 maybe) in this case.

I really don't get what you mean with that "microstepping" thing. In Largo e.g., the interpolation between waves in a wavetable is absolutely smooth, i don't hear any microstepping. If you want, you can post some sound example of that phenomene, maybe it becomes more clear then. I don't really see why any synth would microstep, because i don't think that waveform morphing is really THAT difficult to implement.

I don't ever used Largo so i can't comment on this. Just the synths i mentioned.
Also there is no need to discuss about taste.
Maybe it's in the wavetable itself or whatever for me but i just don't like most synths here beside Dune 2 (and Zebra 2).
It was just my personal meaning and is of course worthless for others.
It was my fault to start something like "micro stepping" because i don't know how i could describe it better. For me it sounds just like that Dune 2 has much more higher resolution when it comes to waveform morphing. A bit like 7bit midi to 14bit.
But how i said it could be the wavetables itself. I don't like most in Serum but like nearly all in Dune 2.

No need to get defensive, i didn't attack you for what you wrote. But it's not about "taste". You said, there is microstepping in the synths you mentioned. I asked what you mean by that, and asked for some sound demos, if that is possible. Seriously interested in what you mean, because i never noticed something like that in neither of the synths i tried which do waveform morphing. Say Largo, Z3TA, Spire, Synthmaster, u-he synths... i don't think it has to do with "taste". It's either a thing which is there or not.

[chk071]

The more I play with it, the more i love it. Oscillator morph it super fun Love these FM modes, they may go absolutely crazy but still sound good. No way to control unison stereo spread? Or is it hidden somewhere?

Not spotted that. Only the various fixed stereo unison options.

Didn't find that either. I really wished they implemented stereo oscillators (for all waveforms), and a unison spread AND stereo spread parameter.

If that's what you search for the Stereo Hypersaw modes (like all Unison modes) works with all waveforms, not just Sawtooth. It does not seem to be possible to set the stero width with those.
I used the Stero hyperxsaw modes for mopst of my patches and often using a single osc was enough to get big/fat sounds. The "Detune" knob in the Oscs is to detune the Unison modes.

Right. So stereo oscillators seems to be there indeed. Or some other implementations, to make the multi oscillators "wide". Stereo spread is something which is definitely missing those. As i said, i don't know how the stereo spread is being implemented, so i don't even know if it's possible to control stereo spread at all.

Product page says this btw:

3x10 stereo oscillators with hypersaw

What about the resynthesis? Can you select stereo samples?

[Ingonator]

[
What about the resynthesis? Can you select stereo samples?

AFAIK those will be converted to Mono and then imported. Other synths that use WAV wavetables do use Mono WAV fies files too and detection of single waveforms from those is alraedy difficult enough that way.
One a WAV file (waveform or wavetable) is loaded into Icarus the Resynthesis (comparable with "load wavetable" for existing wavetables) seems to create additive waveforms/partials, depending on the mode with or without phase informations. For example the "Create Wavetable: Resynthesis Additive" mode should import samples as waveforms without phase informations.
The waveform editor at the wavetable editor got a Spectrum (= additive editing), Waveform (= free drawing) and Phase editor. Editing in one of those will also change teh result in the other 2.

I know that detecting loops from stereo samples (if both channels are different) is not simple. I had doen taht myself in the past (e.g. while creating add-on samples for the Synth Magic PE-3000 Kontakt instrument).

[chk071]

Thanks Ingo, that makes sense.

Totally stupid question, but, is there no semi-tone tuning for the oscillators? I see you can do it by adding a matrix modulation with const, but then you've wasted a matrix slot. Am i missing it in the osc section?

[Ingonator]

Thanks Ingo, that makes sense.

Totally stupid question, but, is there no semi-tone tuning for the oscillators? I see you can do it by adding a matrix modulation with const, but then you've wasted a matrix slot. Am i missing it in the osc section?

This is one of the first things i had found and mentioned during the Beta and it indeed is only possible from the Mod matrix. Not sure if it is plaaned to change this with a future update.

[chk071]

Alright. I hope that they will add it with a future update, because it's quite a common control you'd most likely want to have in the osc section. Maybe as an added parameter in the wave display window, like on Electra2.

Btw, i really like the "Butter" filter. Maybe could have a tiny bit more beef when closing the filter, but resonance and overall character is nice, and it's getting pretty snappy with the envelopes.

[Ingonator]

Alright. I hope that they will add it with a future update, because it's quite a common control you'd most likely want to have in the osc section. Maybe as an added parameter in the wave display window, like on Electra2.

Btw, i really like the "Butter" filter. Maybe could have a tiny bit more beef when closing the filter, but resonance and overall character is nice, and it's getting pretty snappy with the envelopes.

The "Butter" filter /that i really like too...) seems to be based on the 24dB LPF in Saurus and some other filter modes seem to be based on those in Saurus too. AFAIK like in Saurus those should use a zero delay feedback filter technology.

Besides new and/or improved features Icarus also seems to implement some features from earlier Tone2 synths like Electra 2 (e.g. many filter modes), Saurus (filters) and Nemesis (FM Morph modes).

FWIW the LFOs in Icarus go up to 440Hz so they could be used for audio rate modulations.

[exmatproton]

Thanks Ingo, that makes sense.

Totally stupid question, but, is there no semi-tone tuning for the oscillators? I see you can do it by adding a matrix modulation with const, but then you've wasted a matrix slot. Am i missing it in the osc section?

There are no build in env's for the wave as well. There are lfo's, but no dedicated env. So that will take up quite some mod slots as well, since there are 2 ways of env the wave times 3osc..."only" 2 aux envelopes seems a bit scarse anyway.

[Ingonator]

Thanks Ingo, that makes sense.

Totally stupid question, but, is there no semi-tone tuning for the oscillators? I see you can do it by adding a matrix modulation with const, but then you've wasted a matrix slot. Am i missing it in the osc section?

There are no build in env's for the wave as well. There are lfo's, but no dedicated env. So that will take up quite some mod slots as well, since there are 2 ways of env the wave times 3osc..."only" 2 aux envelopes seems a bit scarse anyway.

Modulation sources like e.g. "Decay 1s" are simple envelopes too that use a fixed Decay time shown in the name, same about additional fixed LFOs in the mod sources like e.g. "Sine 4 Hz".

The LFOs got lot of modes/waveforms available from a drop-down menu and most could be further modified with teh "Shape" knob. The "FM" LFO shape is interesting in that respect (when used in combination wih "Shape").

You could also use the LFOs as envelopes and the Step LFo could be used as a multis stage envelope (if you hold the right mouse button you could freely draw the 16 steps instead of changing all steps idividually).

[exmatproton]

Thanks Ingo, that makes sense.

Totally stupid question, but, is there no semi-tone tuning for the oscillators? I see you can do it by adding a matrix modulation with const, but then you've wasted a matrix slot. Am i missing it in the osc section?

There are no build in env's for the wave as well. There are lfo's, but no dedicated env. So that will take up quite some mod slots as well, since there are 2 ways of env the wave times 3osc..."only" 2 aux envelopes seems a bit scarse anyway.

Modulation sources like e.g. "Decay 1s" are simple envelopes too that use a fixed Decay time shown in the name, same about additional fixed LFOs in the mod sources like e.g. "Sine 4 Hz".

The LFOs got lot of modes/waveforms available from a drop-down menu and most could be further modified with teh "Shape" knob. The "FM" LFO shape is interesting in that respect (when used in combination wih "Shape").

You could also use the LFOs as envelopes and the Step LFo could be used as a multis stage envelope (if you hold the right mouse button you could freely draw the 16 steps instead of changing all steps idividually).

Ofcourse, there a ways of doing modulations other ways. And i am aware of all the non-flexible modulation sources. It is just not as flexible. I usually need more then 3 "normal" LFO's, 5 to 10 envelopes (true AD(S)R) and a nice stepper/arp section (or 2), for big patches. Luckily i got Falcon for those kind of patches. But still....would've be great to see Tone2 do a nice (semi-)modular synth, with the FM/additive/WT synthesise they do in other synths. (rayblaster is still one of my fav T2 synths, awesome tool! That into this Icarus + modular possibilities = KILLER!)

About the LFO's: "The LFOs got lot of modes/waveforms available from a drop-down menu and most could be further modified with teh "Shape" knob. The "FM" LFO shape is interesting in that respect (when used in combination wih "Shape")."

This isn't relevant to this shortcoming of their proclaimed "...masterpiece and the most powerful wavetable synthesizer on the market."

I was talking about the amount of envelopes and which of them are dedicated ADSR types. Like in Nemesis, there are envelopes for the FM buttons. I'd really like to see some kind of way to add modules. Now that would be powerful! Now it is just a fun synth and a great tool for waveshaping, nothing more, nothing less.