[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[Phil B]

I hope this helps.

Yes, thank you for the time and patience

[apoclypse]

They are a niche product within a niche.

THIS. I am SO tired of fanboys and influencers pushing the phrase "core DAW features", which is just a bull***t term for basic functionality. That was never a thing that drew people to Bitwig. I don't know anyone who bought Bitwig so they could use it for basic things you can do in literally any other DAW. The entire point of Bitwig is that it's a left-field sound design playground that allows you to create music in non-traditional ways.

I don't want boring Ableton-ish updates that only contain bugfixes and tedious improvements to things that practically no one has even noticed. Shifting the focus on "core features" means pushing out coma-inducing updates with underwhelming changelogs that bring next to nothing new to the table. I'm not paying $170 a year for that. The deal was to get access to POWERFUL new features and devices, not a few nip-tucks to the piano roll and a slightly improved arrangement view.

Bitwig is and always was a weird, experimental and yes NICHE programming environment for sound designers and generative musicians who were NEVER interested in things like "core features". Our heads were outside the box from the very outset. If you bought Bitwig just to draw some notes in the piano roll and plop audio clips into the arrangement view, I'm sorry that you wasted your money because you could've just paid $60 for Reaper.

The way I wrote that was supposed to actually be something negative against Bitwig. It's okay to be niche but then don't be surprised when new customers don't respond to your application. You have to then rely on a few hardcore users for revenue because you are unwilling to cater to more users.

Considering Bitwig hasn't really grown past being a niche product and there are indications revenue is an issue, maybe that wasn't the smartest choice. It is possible to do both niche features and more "mainstream" features. It's music software it doesn't have be exclusively for the l33t (is that still being used?). I would start focusing on making features to attract other users to the platform that they would actually like. Just do it in an interesting way. The trick is to just add enough to attract new users without alienating existing users. Or you can just be Renoise and say screw that and never grow past being a super niche product.

I don't want Bitwig to fail, but it's also not on me to prop them up by giving them money if they don't want to take the steps to attract more users to the platform. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if you want to attract FL Studio users you need a pretty robust PR. It's really that simple. Dismissing these users and telling them to go elsewhere is exactly what they will do, go elsewhere, and Bitwig won't have those users giving them the much needed revenue they need to grow. So when/if they fail they have no else to blame. A core user base is nice but they won't help you grow nor is it a guarantee that they won't move elsewhere when you inevitably have to tap into the user base for more revenue (as we are clearly seeing now). It's why Ableton has been adding those features, they are trying to expand their user base.

I'm not saying all DAWs have to have all features. Like S1 doesn't have to have a clip launcher to be successful. Bitwig doesn't need to be S1 to be successful, but S1 is not in the same situation as Bitwig. They have a hardware company and now Fender to prop them up. Bitwig needs to figure out how to better attract new customers. If that means dropping in a new Piano Roll, or midi capture or whatever it only helps them to have those features.

[dlandis]

I hope this helps.

Yes, thank you for the time and patience

No problem.

[pierb]

Their numbers aren't actually too bad in 2021, maybe not extraordinary well, but they have quite a lot of free capital reserve, and also a reasonable net income (judging by their past).

Is this public information?

[Fannon]

Wow this thread has become long.

Is there now any official communication from Bitwig side? Or did someone here get any reply / answers from them?

[simmo75]

Wow this thread has become long.

Is there now any official communication from Bitwig side? Or did someone here get any reply / answers from them?

Nothing official, correct me if I’m wrong.
They did have a couple of those YouTuber/types/shills/whatever’s, talk about it for a couple of hours I believe.

[musikarldererste]

think about eq+
many users dont like this 4-5 samples delay per channel
or want msegs

still not fixed , they will not hear us
for me bitwig was the best daw

also i never see 75sites discussion before , its huge but still no respond from them

[machinesworking]

If you bought Bitwig just to draw some notes in the piano roll and plop audio clips into the arrangement view, I'm sorry that you wasted your money because you could've just paid $60 for Reaper.

Side note I guess, but I find it interesting that you’re still referencing a non linear cut and paste, non traditional accomplished musician at an instrument way of making music with your post here.

I don’t think that’s what most people who love Bitwig have been asking for. It started as a great MPE DAW with amazing plug in modulation capabilities, with per note editing in the piano roll… people asking for more editing capabilities is not out of the question. Personally features that facilitate actual live playing like MIDI comping, retrospective record, make sense to me, along with more non linear composing tools like they’ve been adding forever. I don’t think anyone approaches Bitwig and thinks it should have more Pro Tools like band recording features, Articulation mapping for orchestral work or even DP or Cubase level movie scoring features… but one of Bitwigs composing strengths is non linear writing and that includes things like improvements to piano roll editing and more robust arranging features.

[Dostoyevsky]

Benn Jordan and Venus Theory chatting about it now

Someone else commented on Youtube: "TLDR: They don‘t care."
Saves one two hours which are better used writing posts here

[musikarldererste]

so we better call saul
maybe he can help us with the eula

[PabloHassan]

It's just rack extensions - like with Reason - though compatibility of projects is my main concern.

[machinesworking]

Benn Jordan and Venus Theory chatting about it now

Someone else commented on Youtube: "TLDR: They don‘t care."
Saves one two hours which are better used writing posts here

Got a couple minutes in and their opinion was people were overreacting, no mention of the actual change in policy, the rewriting of the EULA was ignored in favor of mocking someone for asking lawyers about it. Just typical YouTube nonsense, bully behavior really, but hey this thread is forum nonsense so....

How could anyone take the word of shills who get NFR copies for free on the cost of a DAW they actively promote seriously? I'm not about to sit through 2+ hours of that nonsense.

I'd like to take a moment before going back to messing with my DAW of choice to say I really do not understand the whole phenomena of "influencers", I can't stand it. It sort of grosses me out, they all do headshots too much no matter if they're talking about a DAW or some other thing on a screen, there's the guy in the corner taking up screen real estate so you get a "personal" relationship with them. It's like an uncanny valley version of a friend for people and it makes me sort of ill. It says a lot about the world we live in now that reality television, pundits, YouTube and Instagram influencers are taking the place of informed opinions and in depth analysis of literally anything, and it's all somewhat plastic. Influencers worry about their persona, because their private life or political views, their actual in depth take on what is good or bad, that's too much, they can't do that or they risk alienating someone, it's a shallow pool of basically salesmanship masquerading as tutorials and opinions.

Whether I agree with them or not there are far more diverse opinions on a DAW, plug in or anything else really to do with music production coming from a forum like this than any influencer is willing to give, because of the very nature of their popularity being driven by people pleasing.

It really bummed me out when Kenny Gioia started taking this approach to his tutorial videos, I found them before this turn towards talking head to be one of the most pure no nonsense approaches I've seen, and now it's his mug, because we all need a human in our space show I guess...

[Sound Author]

They literally just sat there and openly admitted that they get all this stuff for free and don’t care about how this impacts the paying customer and laughed at their audience like we don’t matter and our grievance isn’t even real. I just lost a LOT of respect for Venus Theory and, quite frankly, the vast majority of YouTube influencers who are painfully out of touch with the paying consumer. So far, Dash Glitch is the only one of them who’s had the guts to have an actual opinion about this. Meanwhile, Venus Theory looks like he’s in a hostage video. Just blink if you're in danger, Cameron.

[Kyloe]

They are a niche product within a niche.

THIS. I am SO tired of fanboys and influencers pushing the phrase "core DAW features", which is just a bull***t term for basic functionality. That was never a thing that drew people to Bitwig. I don't know anyone who bought Bitwig so they could use it for basic things you can do in literally any other DAW. The entire point of Bitwig is that it's a left-field sound design playground that allows you to create music in non-traditional ways.

I don't want boring Ableton-ish updates that only contain bugfixes and tedious improvements to things that practically no one has even noticed. Shifting the focus on "core features" means pushing out coma-inducing updates with underwhelming changelogs that bring next to nothing new to the table. I'm not paying $170 a year for that. The deal was to get access to POWERFUL new features and devices, not a few nip-tucks to the piano roll and a slightly improved arrangement view.

Bitwig is and always was a weird, experimental and yes NICHE programming environment for sound designers and generative musicians who were NEVER interested in things like "core features". Our heads were outside the box from the very outset. If you bought Bitwig just to draw some notes in the piano roll and plop audio clips into the arrangement view, I'm sorry that you wasted your money because you could've just paid $60 for Reaper.

Well, your text reads as if you are writing on behalf of all Bitwig users. But you don't.

I bought Bitwig - as the first DAW - because it offers very special features, because of the modernity (newer source code than e.g. Ableton Live), touchscreen, but also for the basic things. Before that I tested several other DAWs, Bitwig appealed to me the most and also advertised to be / become a full-featured DAW.

Sentences like "Our heads were outside the box from the very outset." sound like arrogance pseudo elitism to me. I also don't see anything wrong with beginners and new customers buying Bitwig and just "draw some notes in the piano roll and plop audio clips into the arrangement view" for now. There is a steep learning curve and it can be even steeper if you can combine basic applications with powerful tools.

So why not offer full basic functionality AND powerful new features and devices at the same time? So that a few individuals can feel especially unique?

[Sound Author]

They are a niche product within a niche.

THIS. I am SO tired of fanboys and influencers pushing the phrase "core DAW features", which is just a bull***t term for basic functionality. That was never a thing that drew people to Bitwig. I don't know anyone who bought Bitwig so they could use it for basic things you can do in literally any other DAW. The entire point of Bitwig is that it's a left-field sound design playground that allows you to create music in non-traditional ways.

I don't want boring Ableton-ish updates that only contain bugfixes and tedious improvements to things that practically no one has even noticed. Shifting the focus on "core features" means pushing out coma-inducing updates with underwhelming changelogs that bring next to nothing new to the table. I'm not paying $170 a year for that. The deal was to get access to POWERFUL new features and devices, not a few nip-tucks to the piano roll and a slightly improved arrangement view.

Bitwig is and always was a weird, experimental and yes NICHE programming environment for sound designers and generative musicians who were NEVER interested in things like "core features". Our heads were outside the box from the very outset. If you bought Bitwig just to draw some notes in the piano roll and plop audio clips into the arrangement view, I'm sorry that you wasted your money because you could've just paid $60 for Reaper.

Well, your text reads as if you are writing on behalf of all Bitwig users. But you don't.

I bought Bitwig - as the first DAW - because it offers very special features, because of the modernity (newer source code than e.g. Ableton Live), touchscreen, but also for the basic things. Before that I tested several other DAWs, Bitwig appealed to me the most and also advertised to be / become a full-featured DAW.

Sentences like "Our heads were outside the box from the very outset." sound like arrogance pseudo elitism to me. I also don't see anything wrong with beginners and new customers buying Bitwig and just "draw some notes in the piano roll and plop audio clips into the arrangement view" for now. There is a steep learning curve and it can be even steeper if you can combine basic applications with powerful tools.

So why not offer full basic functionality AND powerful new features and devices at the same time? So that a few individuals can feel especially unique?

Full basic functionality AND powerful new features and devices at the same time? That sounds like a great idea! Kinda like the deal I had with Bitwig before they changed the TOS and locked those powerful new features and devices behind a paywall.