Vote now for your top 3 feature request

[Wishoff]

3 - It is so effective, when working with loops, and so much faster = more creative
5 - Well generally the only reason i did'nt go for Tracktion, is the midi editing, i really dislike it, why not copy paste the system from Energy Xt or Cubase ?? it's really nice and CREATIVE INSPIRING.
51 - Well i really think this should help to ?
But my 3rd option is really, that it would be nice with a new sort of function. (52) a function that renders the midi/vsti Clip to audio (and only the clip) and mark it with some sort of symbal, so you can see that this clip is frozen. This way you can use the freeze func. all the way from start to the end, instead of only and the end mixing and so on.

Hope things get better, because i really see potential in this software. and no wonder Mackie has the rights for it (nice move mackie )

Wishoff

[naturestoned]

I would love a REAL drum grid editor for percussive elements. So the existing grid could be a starting point but ...

...on the left side I don't want to see a keyboard but the names of the drum sounds even for non-GM mappings (BFD, DKFH and others). And the name should be editable. e.g HH 1/4, HH 1/2 or Ride Bell, Ride edge..

... you should be able to arrange the drum rows vertically e.g to arrange different hi-hat samples together and not spread all over the keyboard.

... user definiable Drum Maps so every row can go out on a different MIDI channel to be able to combine e.g. Real Drums from BFD with some percussive elements from other SAMPLERS.

[naturestoned]

....oh and please....

do fix that rack plugin delay compensation issue together with multiout-vsts like BFD. I found threads about this since Tracktion 1.x last year.

This week I wanted to used the new PLParEQ3 for the snare Channel..... and not even offline rendering was possible because I got totally out of sync with the room mics out. no matter if the EQ was within the rack or outside.

The EQ is okay but has a high latency which is correctly compensated outside racks.....

[IIRs]

do fix that rack plugin delay compensation issue together with multiout-vsts like BFD.

I'm not actually sure that is possible. Think about it: you want just the snare output to be compensated? The only way Tracktion can do that is to trigger the snares early.. but how does Tracktion know which MIDI notes correspond to that particular audio output? And even if it did, how would it trigger the close-mic snare samples early, while leaving the overhead / room / PZM etc samples in sync?

I think you would be wiser to use a real-time EQ than to ask the developers to perform miracles (or better still, choose an appropriate snare so it doesn't need any EQ)

[naturestoned]

@IIRs

you're right with the MIDI notes. Tracktion wouldn't be able to look into the "Blackbox" BFD.

I think you have to start from the Outputs of the multiout vsts! So if there are Plugins with delay inserted in the chain after an output all other outputs have to be delayed also. it starts to get a bit tricky if complex modular setups are considered (you have to compensate at various nodes,if new outputs/splits are introduced by a plugin) but.... for what else racks should be useful if not building your dream setup once in a preset rack and using it every time in new edits??? ... and T2 is already a miracle, so why not add another one

And to check manually every interesting plugin for introduced delay is not very convenient in comparison to the rest of the superb Tracktion workflow. Maybe then we need a "plugin analysis workbench".

I think that many new users will be even angry about this in the future. Especially when new to the recording stuff and e.g. bought Tracktion, Multiout-Drums and the "highly recommended" expensive plugings (PLParEQ 1000$.... WITH delay) and discover that after the rack learing curve.

don't get me wrong. i love tracktion and can live with it the way you described (using posihfopit for the snare) but this is a feature request thread and I think this would be a big step towards an even more intuitive usage of tracktion, in my opinon the core benefit of this product.

Greetings
naturestoned

[IIRs]

I think you have to start from the Outputs of the multiout vsts! So if there are Plugins with delay inserted in the chain after an output all other outputs have to be delayed also.

Well, there's nothing to stop you doing this manually.. if you do you will discover that the overall latency of the system has been increased to match that of the non-realtime plug. Even if Tracktion could do this for you automagically, I don't think it could eliminate this extra latency without re-writing much of the source code for reality itself

And to check manually every interesting plugin for introduced delay is not very convenient

Perhaps not.. but don't you want to know which of your plugs are safe to use when monitoring a live input?

[naturestoned]

I think you have to start from the Outputs of the multiout vsts! So if there are Plugins with delay inserted in the chain after an output all other outputs have to be delayed also.

Well, there's nothing to stop you doing this manually.. if you do you will discover that the overall latency of the system has been increased to match that of the non-realtime plug. Even if Tracktion could do this for you automagically, I don't think it could eliminate this extra latency without re-writing much of the source code for reality itself

And to check manually every interesting plugin for introduced delay is not very convenient

Perhaps not.. but don't you want to know which of your plugs are safe to use when monitoring a live input?

Well ... I tried to do that manually. e.g. Voxengos free little helper plugins (SampleDelay and LatencyDelay) can be used for that but do we really want to do boring things like measuring, googling and calculating latencies and spaghetti wiring within the racks. This is "just" mathematics that is what computers and software can do best

automagically

-- yes excactly - I like that word - my vote for hiding that sort of non-musical complexity. and code re-writing/ re-organizing is daily business for software engineers IMO

It's obvious that all this latency adds up and no realtime performance with live inputs is possible any more, but for mixing it would be helpful. Imagine all the great IR-Reverb Plugs like SIR or forward looking compressors insert this sort of latency.

And yes I'd like to know which plugin inserts which latency. Some plugins write that in their infoscreen but it would be also helpful to get the information that the plugin reports to tracktion for PDC e.g in a bubble help (samples and ms!!). Maybe also a - switchable - warning message could inform users that new latency is introduced by a plugin and rack sync is lost or live input maybe not possible any more.

ok we have to prioritze the features and the fixes.
That is also, how I understand your post. You're fighting for resources for other improvements, am I right? - Or any other reasons not to fix this? - interesting discussion by the way

[Rock]

FINAL UPDATE:

Score is a weighted total where receiving a #1 = 4 points, a #2 = 3 points and a #3 = 2 points

Code: Select all

1	|	2	|	3	| Total  | Score  |	Features
_________________________________________________________	
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	1 - Ability to Open Multiple Edits
 	|	1	|	 	| 	1	| 	3	|	2 - Ability to Set Default MIDI Tool
10  |	2	|	2	|   14	|	50	|	3 - ACID-like Loop Functionality
 	|	 	|	2	| 	2	| 	4	|	4 - Additional Assignable Shortcut Keys
4	|	1	|	 	| 	5	|	19	|	5 - Additional Freeze Options / Improved Freeze
 	|	1	|	 	| 	1	| 	3	|	6 - Aftertouch Support
5	|	3	|	1	| 	9	|   31	|	7 - All Audio Features, Functions Work w/ MIDI
 	|	2	|	1	| 	3	| 	8	|	8 - Bezier Curve Handles on Automation Points
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	9 - Chase MIDI CC Events Option
16  |	5	|	3	|   24	|   85	|	10 - Clip Based Automation (and/or Linking)
2	|  10	|	4	|   16	|	46	|	11 - Clip Grouping
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	12 - Closing Edit w/o Closing Tracktion
1	|	 	|	 	| 	1	| 	4	|	13 - Convert Between Multi and Single Clips
 	|	 	|	1	| 	1	| 	2	|	14 - Deleting Single Point from Automation Curves
1	|	1	|	 	| 	2	| 	7	|	15 - Destructive Edits on Single Clips
 	|	 	|	1	| 	1	| 	2	|	16 - Destructive Pitch-Shifting
 	|	1	|	 	| 	1	| 	3	|	17 - Export w/ Embedded VST dll's
13  |  15   |  12	|	40	|  121	|	18 - Folder Tracks
1	|	1	|	1	| 	3	| 	9	|	19 - Full MMC / MIDI Clock Implementation
1	|	2	|	1	| 	4	|	12	|	20 - Full Screen MIDI Editing (and/or Locked Size)
 	|	4	|	4	| 	8	|   20	|	21 - Ghost Clips
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	22 - GUI Focus Affected Key Function
 	|	1	|	 	| 	1	| 	3	|	23 - Hide/Unhide Lower Pane
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	24 - Improved CC Data Input
1	|	 	|	4	| 	5	|   12	|	25 - Improved Sampler
 	|	 	|	2	| 	2	| 	4	|	26 - Linux
 	|	1	|	 	| 	1	| 	3	|	27 - Lockable Track Size
3	|	5	|	5	|   13	|	37	|	28 - Loop Record Preroll / Count-in
 	|	 	|	3	| 	3	| 	6	|	29 - Marker Jumping and Sequence Render
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	30 - MIDI Key Change
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	31 - MIDI Clip Fades
1	|	 	|	1	| 	2	| 	6	|	32 - Mixer
1	|	3	|	5	| 	9	|   23	|	33 - Native Timestrech
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	34 - New Unique Clip Creation
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	35 - Region Groups
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	36 - Remember Window Settings by Project
 	|	1	|	1	| 	2	| 	5	|	37 - Separate Time Window
 	|	 	|	1	| 	1	| 	2	|	38 - Shortcut Key / Fix Return Focus to Tracktion
 	|	 	|	1	| 	1	| 	2	|	39 - Shortcut Key to Reverse Clips
1	|	 	|	1	| 	2	| 	6	|	40 - Smoother GUI Movements
1	|	 	|	1	| 	2	| 	6	|	41 - Snapshots
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	42 - Solo Safe
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	43 - Spectral Waveform Viewer
 	|	 	|	1	| 	1	| 	2	|	44 - Standard Tree View in Project Page
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	45 - Stream Capture Redering Option
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	46 - Transport Drivers
 	|	 	|	 	| 	0	| 	0	|	47 - Variable Control / Velocity Panel Heights
 	|	1	|	2	| 	3	| 	7	|	48 - VSTi per MIDI Clip
1	|	 	|	 	| 	1	| 	4	|	49 - Additional MIDI Function Key Bindings
1	|	 	|	1	| 	2	| 	6	|	50 - Relative Snap
0	|	1	|	1	| 	2	| 	5	|	51 - Native Beatslicer
0	|	1	|	0	| 	1	| 	3	|	52 - Clip Muting
1	|	0	|	0	| 	1	| 	4	|	53 - Drum Editor

BY SCORE

Code: Select all

121  Folder Tracks
85	Clip Based Automation (and/or Linking)
50	ACID-like Loop Functionality
46	Clip Grouping
37	Loop Record Preroll / Count-in
31	All Audio Features, Functions Work w/ MIDI
23	Native Timestrech
20	Ghost Clips
19	Additional Freeze Options / Improved Freeze
12	Full Screen MIDI Editing (and/or Locked Size)
12	Improved Sampler
9	 Full MMC / MIDI Clock Implementation
8	 Bezier Curve Handles on Automation Points
7	 Destructive Edits on Single Clips
7	 VSTi per MIDI Clip
6	 Marker Jumping and Sequence Render
6	 Mixer
6	 Smoother GUI Movements
6	 Snapshots
6	 Relative Snap
5	 Separate Time Window
5	 Native Beatslicer
4	 Additional Assignable Shortcut Keys
4	 Convert Between Multi and Single Clips
4	 Linux
4	 Additional MIDI Function Key Bindings
4	 Drum Editor
3	 Ability to Set Default MIDI Tool
3	 Aftertouch Support
3	 Export w/ Embedded VST dll's
3	 Hide/Unhide Lower Pane
3	 Lockable Track Size
3	 Clip Muting
2	 Deleting Single Point from Automation Curves
2	 Destructive Pitch-Shifting
2	 Shortcut Key / Fix Return Focus to Tracktion
2	 Shortcut Key to Reverse Clips
2	 Standard Tree View in Project Page

1st PLACE VOTES

Code: Select all

16	Clip Based Automation (and/or Linking)
13	Folder Tracks
10	ACID-like Loop Functionality
5	 All Audio Features, Functions Work w/ MIDI
4	 Additional Freeze Options / Improved Freeze
3	 Loop Record Preroll / Count-in
2	 Clip Grouping
1	 Convert Between Multi and Single Clips
1	 Destructive Edits on Single Clips
1	 Full MMC / MIDI Clock Implementation
1	 Full Screen MIDI Editing (and/or Locked Size)
1	 Improved Sampler
1	 Mixer
1	 Native Timestrech
1	 Smoother GUI Movements
1	 Snapshots
1	 Additional MIDI Function Key Bindings
1	 Relative Snap
1	 Drum Editor

ALL VOTES

Code: Select all

40	Folder Tracks
24	Clip Based Automation (and/or Linking)
16	Clip Grouping
14	ACID-like Loop Functionality
13	Loop Record Preroll / Count-in
9	 All Audio Features, Functions Work w/ MIDI
9	 Native Timestrech
8	 Ghost Clips
5	 Additional Freeze Options / Improved Freeze
5	 Improved Sampler
4	 Full Screen MIDI Editing (and/or Locked Size)
3	 Bezier Curve Handles on Automation Points
3	 Full MMC / MIDI Clock Implementation
3	 Marker Jumping and Sequence Render
3	 VSTi per MIDI Clip
2	 Additional Assignable Shortcut Keys
2	 Destructive Edits on Single Clips
2	 Linux
2	 Mixer
2	 Separate Time Window
2	 Smoother GUI Movements
2	 Snapshots
2	 Relative Snap
2	 Native Beatslicer
1	 Ability to Set Default MIDI Tool
1	 Aftertouch Support
1	 Convert Between Multi and Single Clips
1	 Deleting Single Point from Automation Curves
1	 Destructive Pitch-Shifting
1	 Export w/ Embedded VST dll's
1	 Hide/Unhide Lower Pane
1	 Lockable Track Size
1	 Shortcut Key / Fix Return Focus to Tracktion
1	 Shortcut Key to Reverse Clips
1	 Standard Tree View in Project Page
1	 Additional MIDI Function Key Bindings
1	 Clip Muting
1	 Drum Editor

Did what I could to best the results. Anyone feel free to double-check them.

BTW, thanks AD80, James and Beno.

[Warmonger]

I'm guessing you've got all this in an Excel file. Could you post that up? I'd like to see how different weighting would affect the overall score.

[Rock]

Here's the raw data in Excel format...

http://www.rockkennedy.com/other_files/FR_RESULTS.xls

[dry bones]

48
28
14

[Lunch Money]

Either you didn't see the "final update" part or that's a reasonably amusing 'funny'.

[IIRs]

Well ... I tried to do that manually. e.g. Voxengos free little helper plugins (SampleDelay and LatencyDelay) can be used for that but do we really want to do boring things like measuring, googling and calculating latencies and spaghetti wiring within the racks.

The latency a plug adds is easy to find out: just insert it on a blank track, and check the "auto-advance" field. You can then set up a single group with a compensating delay to which you route all other channels.

It's obvious that all this latency adds up and no realtime performance with live inputs is possible any more, but for mixing it would be helpful.

I agree, it would be nice to have a mode which guaranteed full PDC even in complex modular routings, at the expense of realtime performance.. I just wanted to make it clear that this would actually be a major new feature, and not (as you implied) a fix for an existing one.

Having thought about it a bit, I think you can achieve what you want with a rack: right-click your non-realtime EQ plug, and select "wrap this filter in a new rack". Now copy this rack filter to all the other tracks with outputs from the BFD rack. On all tracks other than the snare turn the wet level off, the dry level to 100%, and set the "input goes to" fields to "<none>".

<edit> of course it would be more efficient to copy the rack filter once, change the settings, and then duplicate that to all the other BFD tracks..

Let me know if that does the trick.

[AD80]

Either you didn't see the "final update" part or that's a reasonably amusing 'funny'.

Let him vote. He wants 28 like I do. I cant believe that didnt make the top 5! Damn democratic system fails again.

[original flipper]

HI

20 - Full screen midi view.

A 'hold right mouse button' for 360 degree movement inside the view would make it quite yummy, as well!

Flipper.