Dark Lady PM guitar/bass vsti

[Mokafix]

The variety point isn't relevant. it's a cliche.
I won't try to prove it, as I just need to know it.
And anyway, my plug has variety (too much to be realistic in fact), cause I used to think it was important at that time.
So what you say isn't based on what you heard but just on what you think of guitar synths in general.
I don't mind, but that's like it is.

And real strat is disapointing to me;
They missed it. It could have been the variax for PC, but it'll just be a 1Go strat.
I guess they simply want you to pay for extra models in the future...
And anyway, it won't be tunable (which is very important), won't slide or squeak realisticly, simply cause it is impossible to do it properly with samples.

So it was a nice try, but I'm affraid now I can't really learn more about guitars.

But I know my guitar lacks something, And I know exactly what. (And it is not variety )
When it has it, you won't tell the difference with a real one.
In fact, from a specific point of view, it's already even more faithful than a variax...
Strange isn't it? But true.

[datapark]

The variety point isn't relevant. it's a cliche.

I know what you mean when you say "cliche" (or i think i do?:p) but thats not what I'm trying to get across.
I just meant that your plug suffers from the same problems as Slayer and a few other guitar synths I've tried out. Basically, it can be great for leads with the proper FX applied (the lead in Jelly Belly is the one I mentioned earlier, and again, it sounded absolutely great.) but when it comes to chords and riffs, it falls short.

You end up with a certain unnatural "twang" in the sound. A dead giveaway that its being approximated, not produced. If that makes any sense.

And real strat is disapointing to me;
They missed it. It could have been the variax for PC, but it'll just be a 1Go strat.
I guess they simply want you to pay for extra models in the future...

Variax... that line 6 guitar?
you ever played one? its a piece of shit. That yahmaha learning thing is better than a Variax.

And yeah, its going to be a 1gb strat, sampled in the same manner as RealGuitar, and housed in a complex sampler that comes pre-defined with the keyswitching and other mod routings to make your playing seem as realistic to what a real guitarist does as possible. And best of all, its completely dry.

Yay.

You may be right about the Extra models. Toontracks do it, as do other companies. Hell, some even make you pay to download preset libraries.
Its just a part of business. They invest money into developing newer stuff, they want some back for their efforts. I won't hold a grudge against someone for that :p

And anyway, it won't be tunable (which is very important), won't slide or squeak realisticly, simply cause it is impossible to do it properly with samples.

You're right about it not being tunable, but I do believe it will offer drop D tuning as well. I'm working from memory, but maybe more alternate tunings will be possible.

As for its slides and squeaks, well... i'll have to wait and see.
MusicLab did an amazing job with RealGuitar. I hope they do so with RealStrat as well.

When it has it, you won't tell the difference with a real one.

Well I hope so!
Dude, I'm not trying to bring you down, and if you can actually do it, even better!
Your plugs are great. For synthedit modules, they are surprisingly streamlined and cpu friendly.
And they sound good!

Best of luck man.
I'll be eagerly awaiting the release of this too.

edit : i'd like to be more clear.
"For synthedit modules" isn't a put down. Its actually a big compliment. Because until I saw "container" as the title of one of your synths, I had no idea it was synthedit. I just assumed it had all been hand coded.
Basically, you do a better job than most pro-houses.

[Mokafix]

chords andd riffs?
well, why do you think it could fall short?
- not variety, as it is not really happening, or only sometimes (in chords and riffs it may happen, but it will also in my plugin)
- sympathetic resonance
In that case a sampler won't do it well either, unless the chord is one single sample, but it's not versatile...

So in fact, if you think that strings within a chord have a special sound compared to single strokes, it means it comes from interaction between the strings, and that is part of the list of things that no sampler will ever do.

I don't really get your point.


And again, don't wait too much for realistic slides and squeaks in a sampler.
It is part of the things that can't be recorded for later playback.
It has to happen live in the string. My squeaks depend on hand speed along the strings. If you move the hand slowly, well, it does the same slow rate vrvrvrvrvrvrvr as on a real string.
Same for slides:
If you pick the string, then slide down the neck and come back to the note you picked, the sustain will sound completely different than if you did not slide. And It will sound different depending on the fret you slided to before coming back...
It happens in a string, so it is natural. It won't happen in a sampler, because... nothing happens in a sampler. A sampler is a dead thing.

And what's beautiful is that I don't even need to bother programming those phenomenons: they happen naturally!

I guess realstrat will be nice too; in fact I used to be excited about it when I first heard realguitar. Then I learnt lots of things, so now I know what i can wait from a sampler and what will never be.

I think there's room for all those fantastic products anyway.

But of course, doing what I'm doing, I feel like from the programming point of view, sampling VS synthesis is like waiting in a cave for a lightening to happen and run for miles in the rain to catch fire, VS using a lighter...

[datapark]

well if people were using a lighter they'd just pick up a real guitar.

its all good man. You're right of course about the limits of samplers. Just as I believe I'm right about the limits of synthesis when it concerns recreating physical instruments. Neither will ever be as good as the real deal.

But hey, in the end, I should end up with 2 new plugs to give me more choice when composing.


so when can we test it? :p

[Mokafix]

well if people were using a lighter they'd just pick up a real guitar.

+1


Well, of course, in the end what's interesting is the choice customer will have.

That was an interesting discussion, cause there are many beliefs about real instruments that don't resist the experiment.
I hope I can reach what I want and end up with a groundbreaking vsti.

Always a pleasure to exchange ideas with a gentleman.

[datapark]

Someone called me a gentleman. I'm gonna forward this to my mother in law!

[Mokafix]

I have a question:

I'm working on a chord mode, and had an idea. I'd like to know if it makes sense.
i want to provide an unlimited amount of chords.
The way I found to make it possible is to make a text file containing the chords infos, and trigger it via MIDI.

Idea#1 :

2 octaves are used to select the chord.
others are used to select a variation.
It's simple: you just play the chord as you would on a piano, without thinking of guitar (Cmaj is only C,E,G), and with your other hand, you press a key on the "variations selection" octaves. you see?
Let's say from C1 to B3 are the chord selection, and C3 and above are variation selection.
C3=var1, C#3=var2, etc.
That way, I can enter a HUGE amount of chords, and even add some later in the bank, you can even add yours later, etc.

how to play:
1) you press a chord, to chose the chord. (no sound = like when the guitarist places his left hand)
2) you hit one of the varitions keys, and hear the corresponding chord strummed, strum rate depending on velocity.

+ unlimited amount of chords
- hand position on fretboard depends on variation and thus isn't anticipated, as the trigger is the variation key. (bad for squeak noises)
-> possible solution: make the strum start on key release, so when you press variation, the hand goes in place, squeaks, and on release, the chord is strummed.


Idea#2 :

5 or 6 octaves to make chords, each octave corresponding to a variation.
One key to strum, 6 keys to pick individual strings.


+ anticipation of hand position, as it depends on variation, which here goes along with chord selection.
+ possibility to have several keys assigned to different things like upward strum, downard, individuals, mutes...
- way less chords (only 4,5 or 6, depending on your keyboard size)

So the choice is lots of chords VS more playing possibilities...

Maybe both modes?

Anyway, despite the choice, does it seem convenient to play?

[cheul]

Bump.
Any news on that one ? It sounds good.

[Mokafix]

I'm still working on it. I implemented a chord mechanism.
There are several midi input modes. a good old one chord per octave, and different modes using a chord detection and translation based on a custom editable chord dictionary.
The things works with a chord library that also is editable, and can thus become huge (how many chords as you wish, and up to 20 variations for each).

I still need to finish some of those input modes.


I also made some great steps in the twang direction, I think, but nothing definitive yet.

Anyway, I don't think I'll release this plugin alone, as synthedit limits it a bit (buffer issue).
I'd like to make it C++ with the help of someone, so you might need to wait a bit.

I wish it could be released before 2008. I think I'm almsot done. Some screws and paint here and there, and it'll be ready to be ported to C++.


This is a handcrafted plugin, and I can tell you there's love inside it.

[Tony Ostinato]

I use a vl70m and now a laptop with milestone and various other less interesting VA's and samplers.

anyone working in PM gets big applause from me cause as much as its about the timbre its also about the behavior and ONLY physical modeling instruments deal with behavior, samplers suck!

[Mokafix]

Thanks for the support!

I agree. PM is beautiful!

And as I said earlier, the variations are infinite: as soon as you slide , even if you come back to the note, the sustain won't be the same as if you had not slide, and it will be different depending on which notes to slided too.
It's impossible to count those different possibilities.
Add to that the speed of the slide, the free pickup positionning (which isn't a fake emulation with filters, but the real behavior), the pick position, the free tuning, the muting of strings, the fine tuning screws, pickup rotation, the different pickups...

It can give headaches to any sample programmer.

[MaliceX]

One could consider that the decay decreases as you slide in realtime if that's even possible. Or rather, expression/volume temporarily decreases per pitch bend event until a note off for that string..

[Mokafix]

erhhh... what do you mean?
that your finger mute the string a bit and alters the sustain when you fret and slide?
yes, probably. I did take that into account for Hand squeaks, but not for slide. i might add that option and let you set how "loose" is the left hand...

[Vonbrucken]

i was thinking , so what is going on with these plugins ?

[Cygnus X-1]

i was thinking , so what is going on with these plugins ?

+1