Objective Differences: Ableton Live 9.5 vs Bitwig?

[endlessdog]

btw stretch and pitch shift is so important.. as important as anything else in modern music... If modulation is so essential to make music , i wonder how anyone can make music in bitwig with such awful time stretch? And no rewire to use something else with better stretch? Work that one out.

It's got the worst warp algos of any modern daw.. audible to anyone who knows anything about stretch.

Time stretch is for people who can't play in time. They are the ones who tend to use such features rather than make the effort to correct their own inadequacies.

However did J.S. Bach play in time without timestretch>? Poor old Bach. He must have been dying for such a feature on his big old church organ.

Bach had a big organ. Yes. A big one. And he could play it without timestretch.

I'm sure his wife was thrilled.

You just keep digging yourself further and further and defeating your own arguments. Did bach use modulation?

Yes. And he probably also used capital letters when appropriate.

Blocking me... Who's the one who's stuck his head in the dirt now?

What a pity you wont be able to read this you silly tit.

[zlatan]

Well, your comparison holds in so far as cameras require more control the further up the scale of professionalism you get. But again, i know of people turning out beautiful work on a disposable snap camera, so...

Music software requires control to the degree that it doesn't become obstructive to your process. If you had to set every parameter each time you wanted to make a sound, it would get tiresome very quickly.

Fully manual cameras require a large degree of technical knowledge to produce decent well exposed images.

All music software must in some sense automate some of the process for you, as fully manual processing of sound would put off most of the people who buy these products... It would ask far too much of the musician for people to put up with it...

I already pointed out that you were absolutely right from a creative/artistic standpoint.
However your counter arguments from a professional perspective sound a bit silly.

[elxsound]

Don't use Bitwig then. And shut up about Bitwig. If you don't use it you have no legitimate any grievance against it.

Wow.

So who gets to determine a "legitimate" grievance about Bitwig.

Is that you?

I'll never understand people's attempts to censor someone else, especially when he's been extremely specific about how it applies to his own usage.

Which is absolutely no different than anyone else's contribution to this thread.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[endlessdog]

I own both programs.

I am also a photographer.

I know what i'm talking about.

I'm not out to censor anyone.

I know an idiot when i meet one.

Use what the hell you want.

What's the point complaining about something you don't use?

It's just waffle and goss. Waste of time.

I have a lot of music to make.

It's nice to write your pains out onto the internet.

But it's nicer to write music.

Use whatever you need but do not rely on your tools to do the work.

If something doesn't meet your requirements, so be it. Find something else.

There is always an alternative.

Opinions are like assholes... You know the rest.

Bye.

[endlessdog]

Don't use Bitwig then. And shut up about Bitwig. If you don't use it you have no legitimate any grievance against it.

Wow.

So who gets to determine a "legitimate" grievance about Bitwig.

Is that you?

I'll never understand people's attempts to censor someone else, especially when he's been extremely specific about how it applies to his own usage.

Which is absolutely no different than anyone else's contribution to this thread.

legitimate

adjective

6. not spurious or unjustified; genuine.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/legitimate


grievance

noun

1. a wrong considered as grounds for complaint, or something believed to cause distress.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grievance


Not using the product you are making complaint about: grievance (protestation, moaning) becomes illegitimate (spurious, illogical, pointless).

English is a fun language.

[zlatan]

You wrote it like poetry
I admire your passion !

[elxsound]

Don't use Bitwig then. And shut up about Bitwig. If you don't use it you have no legitimate any grievance against it.

Wow.

So who gets to determine a "legitimate" grievance about Bitwig.

Is that you?

I'll never understand people's attempts to censor someone else, especially when he's been extremely specific about how it applies to his own usage.

Which is absolutely no different than anyone else's contribution to this thread.

legitimate

adjective

6. not spurious or unjustified; genuine.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/legitimate


grievance

noun

1. a wrong considered as grounds for complaint, or something believed to cause distress.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grievance


Not using the product you are making complaint about: grievance (protestation, moaning) becomes illegitimate (spurious, illogical, pointless).

English is a fun language.

Congratulations, you've proven that you can copy and paste text.

Funny enough, your own posts validate Theo's statements. And even more funny, you're a photographer, but you don't see it.

[endlessdog]

I can also utilise synonyms.

Funny, humourous, amusing, ; strange, odd, unusual. Just a few basics there if you may ever feel need of them.


Style is an under-appreciated quality.

[5Lives]

And that's the end of the thread. Thanks for playing KVR.

[pdxindy]

For me no matter if it has every feature in the world, it will never be usable as a main daw until i can freely resize tracks and adjust part fades (and crossfades) on the main arrange page. They are two basic fundamentals I can simply never live without.

I understand people like it's note expression, and modulation, etc.. all good. Like it. I am just saying why i don't. And even though live doesn't have traditional crossfades of overlapping clips, the fact that i can resize tracks and do curved clip fades all in the arrange page, just those two things, make it instantly better for ME than bitwig.

Since you don't even use Live much, I can understand your point of view... but get used to using Bitwig's multi-clip and multi-track editing and it is painful to go back to Live as a main DAW.

In the Launcher, click on a scene and all the clips in that scene are then shown in the editor. Click another scene and it switches to those clips. You can lock a track if you want to be sure not to edit those notes

Add in the histograms, editing of audio events inside an audio clip, Bitwig's multi-layered clip automation (add and multiply), opening of multiple projects at once and dragging one project into another as a group, etc.

I've used Live for years but in various respects it feels clunky now compared to Bitwig... There's some stuff I rather miss from Live and more importantly, Live is more stable at the moment. The Bitwig Dev's are focused on bug fixing and that is a good thing. The amount of bugs was a big turnoff but they are making good progress.

The lack of crossfades is a core deficiency and needs to be addressed, but Arrange does not need tracks to be re-sized as it handles that rather elegantly in a different manner.

Anyway, this thread kinda went sour. Hopefully it either dies down or gets back to a fruitful discussion of Live and Bitwig. Even for someone who likes Live better, they should be happy about Bitwig cause there is no question Bitwig has caused Ableton to sharpen up their efforts... good for everyone

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[elxsound]

I can also utilise synonyms.

Funny, humourous, amusing, ; strange, odd, unusual. Just a few basics there if you may ever feel need of them.


Style is an under-appreciated quality.

You give yourself too much credit.

I know you'd love to make this personal, but the point remains. His complaints are valid for him.

Yes, you were trying to censor him and now all this... Well, its boring, and off topic. Pointless. Maybe you find it entertaining, but I doubt anyone else does.

[Orbit-50]

I find it entertaining.

[trimph1]

Objective differences?

More like Subjective Preferences.

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Anent to this...who will be the master subject who will determine these "Objective Differences"?

A detached observer from Mars, perhaps?