KVR Audio

5Lives · Post by **5Lives** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:26 pm

Hi all,

I was initially looking to buy Ableton Live to complement something like S1 or Logic from an idea generation perspective (which I think it excels at), but then I tried Bitwig 1.35 and was sort of blown away just how good the workflow is in that already (even beyond idea generation) and seems to be getting rapidly improved.

So, for those that have or have tried both, was just wondering what are the objective major differences between the two? Which do you prefer and why?

I've been contemplating getting Push2 as well and it seems Bitwig also supports that.

Cheers!

JonSolo · Post by **JonSolo** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:21 pm

The Push 2 and Bitwig script is new, and the integration between those will likely improve but it still is not as good as the integration between the Panorama and Bitwig (which I would get if I were going with Bitwig).

It feels like you have made a decision. If you love Bitwig's workflow then you should go for it. I loved it, because it seemed to blur the line between Cubase and Ableton. I loved Cubase's workflow and could never understand Ableton, though I loved the concept of creating clips or blocks (such as in Reason) and building from there.

Anyway, I switched back to Ableton and now have the Push 2 with it and it is awesome!. But I also have a Panorama controller that I use with Cubase...so my workflow is mega-fast now.

Bitwig and Ableton are very close. If you really love the Push 2, however I would go with Ableton Live. If you really love Bitwig's workflow, NOTHING should stop you from going in that direction (objective differences or not because the difference could be a blow to your flow).

5Lives · Post by **5Lives** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:47 pm

Thanks. Ableton and Bitwig are very similar in a lot of respects, so that's why I posed the question, because I don't have enough experience with either to really know what the other might offer above and beyond that (and whether that would be important to me). I haven't used Push 2, so hard to say if I love it, but certainly native Push integration is a consideration - it seems like Bitwig wouldn't be that far behind Ableton in this respect though.

I'll check out Panorama though.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:49 am

Lets see, Bitwig's got layered (multitrack) midi editing, and track midi editing, while Live only has clip based.
Live has the groove pool which lets you apply all kinds of timing properties to clips to mimic the grooves of mpcs and whatnot while Bitwig only has a swing knob for that.
Bitwig has a crazy modulation system that lets you modulate any knob on any device (or vst) however you want.
Bitwig lets you edit audio within clips so that your edited audio can be "packaged." For example, you can create a 4 bar clip and move around kick samples inside that clip to create a kick pattern. Then you can easily manipulate the clip and if you loop it and then edit the samples inside, the edits will be reflected in the loops.
Ableton has better instruments and fx imo. The new 9.5 simpler is very cool.
Lots of people like the Bitwig browser set up better. Adding devices is so easy in Bitwig, just double click in device lane to get pop up browser.
Bitwig has the edit view which lets you see the device lane and midi editor in the same screen so you can tweak both together. Very handy.
Live's gui is a bit more compact, probably better for laptops or smaller screens.
Bitwig has multiple tools for editing, while Live only has two tools, a "smart" tool and a drawing tool. So Bitwig should theoretically be better for editing, but some of the Bitwig tools are kind of wonky and undercooked, and not having to switch tools in Live a lot can make basic stuff more quick and painless.
Bitwig lets you use the clip launcher in the arrange view. That's a huge deal and it makes it easy to combine the two worlds and trigger or record loops along side linear stuff that you've built in the arrange.
There are more sounds and cool max for live things available for Live.
Bitwig has more cool stuff planned for the future that we know of. A network and internet syncing feature that will let multiple computers work on the same project at the same time, and an integrated modular environment ala max for live. They have also talked about comping and restrospective record and other fun stuff, but no word on when that's coming right now.
As said above Live has better push integration. There are some talented developers making Push scripts for Bitwig but you can't really beat integrated first party development. Push 2 has a bunch of features integrated with Live devices like simpler so if want to use Push to the fullest you probably need Live.

There are many more differences. Sorry, can't write them all out. They both have unlimited demos I think, so the best course of action would be to just start using them. They are so similar that it will come down to which features you happen to use in your music. If you go will Bitwig, it could potentially end up being the only daw you need. Ableton is probably trying to kick it into gear to compete with Bitwig, but Bitwig has shown they are full of great ideas and the pace of development is very rapid.

dave dove · Post by **dave dove** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:36 am

for me:
i have mac
i have Bitwig 8-track
and Live suite

bitwig crashes a fair bit when using reaktor
live doesn't

dave

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:51 am

Reports vary but the consensus seems to be that Bitwig is more buggy than Live right now. They have recently started doing a round of just bugfixing to fix this though.

kev2525 · Post by **kev2525** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:31 am

Ableton has rewire which means you can easily integrate it into Studio one and use them at the same time. This means you can have the best bits of both running at the same time. Bitwig has jack and to be honest I have no idea how well it integrates with studio one.

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:05 am

kev2525 wrote:Ableton has rewire which means you can easily integrate it into Studio one and use them at the same time. This means you can have the best bits of both running at the same time. Bitwig has jack and to be honest I have no idea how well it integrates with studio one.

Plogue Bidule(as VST plugin) has ReWire, VST3 support if u really needs these ones (ok Studio One, Cubase etc. can't be slave so Reaper is the only really usable one)

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:53 pm

5Lives wrote:Thanks. Ableton and Bitwig are very similar in a lot of respects, so that's why I posed the question, because I don't have enough experience with either to really know what the other might offer above and beyond that (and whether that would be important to me). I haven't used Push 2, so hard to say if I love it, but certainly native Push integration is a consideration - it seems like Bitwig wouldn't be that far behind Ableton in this respect though.

I'll check out Panorama though.

I haven't used Bitwig, but I believe Push 1 integration is very good. I thought integration of Push 2 is still in the pipeline. Main issue being the display. You might want to check specifically for the combination of Bitwig and Push 2 if you decide to go down that road.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:02 pm

Demo, Demo....Demo!

I have both; currently prefer BitWig (it has far stronger song arrangement, clip editing and modulation) but also like MAX in Live (and have a lot of Live packs!) - If I didn't have either, I would probably buy Bitwig (and its cheaper). Bitwig actually works quite a lot like S1 (boitom editing poanel window for editing or mixer (and racks for BW), inspector to the right, instrument/clip to the left....

....but don't be surprised if (as hinted) Live do something mind-blowing for 'Live X' they have been collecting 'most requested features' via a voting poll for over a year now and haven't yet implemented any- I expect at least the top 10 to make the next version....

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:43 pm

sry for offtopic but also worth to check RapidComposer if u're looking for an idea-generator, it's on sale currentlty http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=168

for more

Code: Select all

 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzjBlMfpxYguPKlddplMm5PH_F24jkEU_

5Lives · Post by **5Lives** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:15 pm

Thanks all for the replies! I came across this (somewhat old) video that is pretty illustrative too:

I'm playing around with the demos still. I love a lot of things about Bitwig, but Live has a much higher level of polish (as you would expect) - the browser for example seems to be must faster to work with compared to Bitwig. Will be really interesting to see where Bitwig is at after 6-12 months, but right now, I think I'm going to lean towards Live.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:40 am

SLiC wrote:....but don't be surprised if (as hinted) Live do something mind-blowing for 'Live X' they have been collecting 'most requested features' via a voting poll for over a year now and haven't yet implemented any- I expect at least the top 10 to make the next version....

Yep, I'm interested to see Live 10. What hints are you referring to? Just the polling?

JonSolo · Post by **JonSolo** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:20 pm

The question is how far away is Live X. It is hard to go by release times. It used to be a year between major releases. When they started their point updates it got even longer. Live 9.2 was released this summer with a HUGE fix, namely PDC. Now we just got Live 9.5 which is one of the largest feature packed "free" point updates. Push 2 will generate capitol EASILY for a few years.

So I am not so sure when we will see Live X. More than a year possibly?

zeep · Post by **zeep** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:34 pm

I have Live 8 and 9 and bought Bitwig about a year ago. To me the internal effects-, instruments quality and overall the workflow made me respectfully ask for a refund.

My choice for now would be Live 9, and keeping an eye on Bitwig.

Objective Differences: Ableton Live 9.5 vs Bitwig?