MSoundFactory Wishlist

[Chandlerhimself]

mini meld.JPG

I was actually able to make a full functional synth just using the easy screen. I still need to tweak it a bit, but I was surprised that it was easier than I thought. Sounds great too.

[DPhil]

Unfortunately this looks & feels very uninspiring which is the exact opposit of what I'd expect from a synth.

[masitito]

Unfortunately this looks & feels very uninspiring which is the exact opposit of what I'd expect from a synth.

I use and like Melda plugins. But none of them look inspiring to me. That's why I'm in the camp of the ones would would like to see an UXD expert working for Voijtech.

What I'm looking for in a synth besides its sonic qualities is how efficient I can do modulation. That is how fast is it to setup new a modulation. And how I can track and adjust what is already being modulated. In this respect the screenshot doesn't look very promising.

Masi

[Chandlerhimself]

The screen shot isn't MSF(well atleast not all of it). Its something I made for myself. The UI doesn't look like that. I choose the knobs, layout, colors myself. MSF is fully modular, what I just posted is basically a large set of macros.

[dmbaer]

dmbaer - I talked to Vojtech about turning files into wavetables and he says its already planned, so hopefully it will work well with standard wavetables. On the one hand I can see the need for more slots, but it may not be necessary if the wavetables play smoothly and sound good. Also a spectral module might have similar functionality, so if normal wavetables don’t load in the wavetable module they might work better in the spectral. We’ll have to see.

I came across this a few weeks ago:

http://oberheim8000.com/

They offer a free library of wave table files (actually it's donation-ware) that are said to be loadable into:

SynapseAudio Dune 2
Xfer Serum
UVI Falcon
Tone2 Icarus
KV331 Audio Synthmaster and SynthMaster One

I have two of those synths (three counting both Synthmasters) but I have not had a chance to try these out (so I cannot confirm they actually *are* compatible). However, this does at least suggest that there's a common format for wave table files with which MSF should be compatible for broadest coverage. Also, for broadest coverage, MSF should support as many wave table slots as the other instruments named above. Without having double checked, I believe that number is 256. If even one of the above instruments does 256, then it would be a shame if MSF made itself incompatible with free wave table collections that had more than 64 entries in any of its files. A 256-entry wave table file is, after, a whole lot smaller than a typical sample file, so memory consumption should not be an important factor, I would think.

[nichttuntun]

Unfortunately this looks & feels very uninspiring which is the exact opposit of what I'd expect from a synth.

You have to be inspired by a certain look and a special arrangement of pixels to actually make cool sounds with a VST synth?

[DPhil]

Unfortunately this looks & feels very uninspiring which is the exact opposit of what I'd expect from a synth.

You have to be inspired by a certain look and a special arrangement of pixels to actually make cool sounds with a VST synth?

A synth (more than any effect) needs to make me wanting to tweak its knobs, to adjust its filters or to experiment with what its capable of. Workflow, conception and aesthetics matters a lot here (of course sound too) since it will be used for a long time in a row and usually in an ongoing back and forth. There are very good examples for synths that are capable of a lot but it's a pita to do anything with them. And there are the opposit synths, capable of a lot and quite easy managable (u-he synths, Avenger, Rapid, Falcon or Synthmaster).

[Chandlerhimself]

dmbaer - I talked to Vojtech about turning files into wavetables and he says its already planned, so hopefully it will work well with standard wavetables. On the one hand I can see the need for more slots, but it may not be necessary if the wavetables play smoothly and sound good. Also a spectral module might have similar functionality, so if normal wavetables don’t load in the wavetable module they might work better in the spectral. We’ll have to see.

I came across this a few weeks ago:

http://oberheim8000.com/

They offer a free library of wave table files (actually it's donation-ware) that are said to be loadable into:

SynapseAudio Dune 2
Xfer Serum
UVI Falcon
Tone2 Icarus
KV331 Audio Synthmaster and SynthMaster One

I have two of those synths (three counting both Synthmasters) but I have not had a chance to try these out (so I cannot confirm they actually *are* compatible). However, this does at least suggest that there's a common format for wave table files with which MSF should be compatible for broadest coverage. Also, for broadest coverage, MSF should support as many wave table slots as the other instruments named above. Without having double checked, I believe that number is 256. If even one of the above instruments does 256, then it would be a shame if MSF made itself incompatible with free wave table collections that had more than 64 entries in any of its files. A 256-entry wave table file is, after, a whole lot smaller than a typical sample file, so memory consumption should not be an important factor, I would think.

I'd like to thank Vojtech for adding a way to easily import wave files. I just checked out that wavetable pack. Sounds good. I checked them in MSF and SynthmasterOne. Many of them were close to identical in both. I few sounded a bit off in MSF and I'm guessing that had to do with how the sample was chopped. I think I could have fixed a few if I would have taken the time. For example one sounded 90% the same except the beggining sounded like pure square in SMOne, but in MSF it sounded a bit off. I noticed some useful additions to MSF in the wavetable section, so I added a wavetable to the begging and set it to square. After that they sounded 99% the same. I tried a stock wavetable from Codex and it sounded the same in SMOne, MSF and of course Codex.

I actually agree that MSF should have a way to load the generally agreed upon wavetable formats, but I can't fault the current method too much because the results are generally good. Maybe a 2nd tab with a load wavetable option would be good(with a waveform view instead of the slots) and then just keep the current analyze audio file method as it is. Best of both worlds. Vojtech said there are many ways to morph between them, so maybe having a few different methods would be good. That said I'm pretty impressed with it as is.

[masitito]

Unfortunately this looks & feels very uninspiring which is the exact opposit of what I'd expect from a synth.

You have to be inspired by a certain look and a special arrangement of pixels to actually make cool sounds with a VST synth?

Humans react to sensory information in an emotional way. I assume that the degree in which this emotions bias the judgment varys individually. Or to put it simpler: folks love to use tools that are pleasurable to work with. Given that two tools have the same usability they will choose the one that feels and/or looks better.

Melda plugins are IMHO built around the paradigm that usability is king. They don't care much about the looks (shiny = marketing = evil ?!?!). But they are also unrivalled when it comes to tweaking. So if you like to tinker with the innermost parameters of a plugin Melda is the choice.

If you don't want to tinker, too bad. The active presets are great, but also only on a functional level. They do not look inspiring either. Looking at them I never feel the urge to give them a try. What's more they are available only for paid products. The free package has none. Which I feel could cause loose Melda some prospective customers, but I don't know if that statement can be proven.

But why am I here? Why do I care at all? Because sometimes I do like to tinker and Melda plugins are fun in that respect. The other reasons is Voijtech and this forum. I love to toss around ideas and for me its great when "the company" is present and reacts to forum posts. You won't get that with the big names.

Sorry for posting longer than I initially intended to. And also sorry for bringug up the design topic up again. It's boring I know, but I really don't dig the it-does-not-matter-how-a-plugin-looks-like argument.

Masi

[nichttuntun]

Unfortunately this looks & feels very uninspiring which is the exact opposit of what I'd expect from a synth.

You have to be inspired by a certain look and a special arrangement of pixels to actually make cool sounds with a VST synth?

A synth (more than any effect) needs to make me wanting to tweak its knobs, to adjust its filters or to experiment with what its capable of. Workflow, conception and aesthetics matters a lot here (of course sound too) since it will be used for a long time in a row and usually in an ongoing back and forth. There are very good examples for synths that are capable of a lot but it's a pita to do anything with them. And there are the opposit synths, capable of a lot and quite easy managable (u-he synths, Avenger, Rapid, Falcon or Synthmaster).

Hi, I do understand, that there is the need for certain GUIs for certain people and everybody has different preferences. But I can assure, that the real magic is going on in the building blocks within the modular-field and the various modulatos. When you flow into the sound sculpting process there you will forget everything else. What chandler posted is just a simplyfied surface representing certain tweakable parameters of the modular system in the background. Just like the surface of a hardware synth covering all the mainboards, CPUs, transformers, copper lanes and whatnot.

You will be definately (hopefully) be inspired way enough by the many sound sculpting options the building blocks offer. In the end it´s just the sound thats inspiring.

[masitito]

Hi, I do understand, that there is the need for certain GUIs for certain people

Like pieces of fantasy outboard gear?

and everybody has different preferences.

That's life. Happens to anyone who creates anything.

This is IMHO no excuse not to create a UI that may be used efficiently (fast), evokes some kind of pleasure and satisfatcion. If I understood a User eXperience Design primer that I read it should also convey the brand of the product. The latter may or not be the case for the current Melda design

I reckon that few of the regulars here are UI designers. I'm not one either. But I'm a developer in the "web business". In this field we ideally have a UI designer and a graphics designer to create the best possible results. Sometimes a graphics designer without UI experience design does the whole job. The result will look good, but is rarely useable. The point of this digression is to hire a professional to do the UI design.
BTW, the worst kind of UI of programs is the result of UI design by the coders themselves . They tend to think about features and not about the needs of the people who are going to use it. *

Just like the surface of a hardware synth covering all the mainboards, CPUs, transformers, copper lanes and whatnot.

Wrong choice of metaphor for your cause Why? Because I'm conviced that if you pack the same sound gear in a solid wooden case with solid metal knobs people will feel more inspired than if you put the same gear into a plastic case with rattling faders.

Is this rational? No. But not all of the human mind is rational. Creating and enjoying music isn't rational

Masi

* There is another kind of folks who don't care about the real needs of people: the marketing guys. They are the ones who want the fantasy outboard gear design .

[Soundplex]

In the end it´s just the sound thats inspiring.

Assuming that

MPowerSynth is an extremely versatile synthesizer featuring the best sounding oscillators on the market, the most advanced distorting filters and a unique modular effects engine. It also features our smart randomization system providing endless inspiration.

Why aren't there dozens of soundsets from top notch designers then like for other, even way simpler synths (I found about 3 - wagtunes, zentralmassiv & another one)? Either the sound isn't inspiring or people have a problem using it (including me)... You think this will change out of the sudden for an even more complex project?

[nichttuntun]

This is IMHO no excuse not to create a UI....

I think no one has to make excuses here for nothing. Least any dev following his concept and vision.

[nichttuntun]

Why aren't there dozens of soundsets from top notch designers then like for other, even way simpler synths (I found about 3 - wagtunes, zentralmassiv & another one)? Either the sound isn't inspiring or people have a problem using it (including me)... You think this will change out of the sudden for an even more complex project?

Everything has its reason. I don´t think it has to change...although everything changes ever anyway. The change is the core nature of everything. And I think, if you are really interested in an answer to your question, you should ask the people you mentioned. And I think no one has to jump on every wagon with force. It´s much more relaxed for others than.

[DarkStar]

This is IMHO no excuse not to create a UI that may be used efficiently (fast), evokes some kind of pleasure and satisfatcion.

Agreed, and for many users the current design approach does that. But, it's not for everyone.

If I understood a User Experience Design primer that I read it should also convey the brand of the product. The latter may or not be the case for the current Melda design

It is. They are instantly recognisable.

In this field we ideally have a UI designer and a graphics designer to create the best possible results.

OK then, given the features and capabilities of the plug-ins what, specifically, would the UI designer come up with?

* There is another kind of folks who don't care about the real needs of people: the marketing guys. They are the ones who want the fantasy outboard gear design .

Agreed.