Pulsar Modular P450/P455 MDN Plugin Bundle

[Kappa_Beta_Hi-Phi]

IMO I'm quite entitled to be concerned about this industry ands it's conventions, best practices and outcomes even if I'm not a customer of this particular company.

Kids with their entitlement these days!

I'm kidding. You can do whatever you like. No one is censoring you. We're having a friendly discussion.

Of course, but you can understand why this situation may cause some of us to be distressed. One can always reduce ones stress about anything at all by touching grass but it won't necessarily reduce any of the source of your distress.

[bmanic]

So I read on GS that bmanic developed some presets for this plugin.

I wonder if he worked for free or if he received the plugin for free as payment?

It's always good to know these things regarding people who have influence within a community.

I didn't have time to do proper beta testing for this plugin, no unfortunately. But I did get in at the very end of development to create some presets (for free) for the plugin and also to give my opinion on it (not that it really mattered as it was 99.9% done by then).

Yes, I did receive an NFR license for it.

Do you think that motivated me to do the work on the presets and testing it at it's final stages of development? Hell no. Only 3 hours of my time is worth more than the plugin and I spent considerably more than that in the studio testing it and for the presets. I never do any beta testing for the sake of getting a NFR. That math just doesn't work out at all.

In my opinion, testing for a company should only be done as a charity. You are giving your time and expertise for free to the company.

I once calculated the rough amount of time I spent helping Acustica Audio with their plugins and the results horrified me. Lets just say I could have bought a nice car with the time spent, even at minimum wage.

My point is: There is literally no monetary incentive involved at all.

The only exceptions are when I get hired to do large amounts of presets or sample material for somebody. For instance when I work with FabFilter they always pay me for my work. Same with Apple (Logic Pro X). They always pay for the specific work being done.. as do some other companies. That work is always very specific and has no further monetary gains nor incentives once the product is released. There are no royalties to be had.

Besides, I'm the worst person you could possibly ask for if you want a "yes man". That's just not me and people know it. Probably why I keep getting asked to help out (and sometimes actually hired as a consultant).

[bmanic]

Interesting discussion.

From my point of view, there's the product and there's the discussion that surrounds the product. I personally prefer when the discussion about a technical tool product stays on course as objectively as possible, but we're all subjective creatures etc and presumably we're all emotionally involved in making music. So a bit of subjectivity is generally unavoidable.

The subjectivity in PM threads is what turns me off. There's a big helping of "THIS IS THE ONE WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR BOYS" with each release. I suppose it's funny (at least to me) that, naturally, there's an appeal in that prospect. If PM or another developer released a plugin that was genuinely a GAME CHANGER, I'd definitely want to try it and likely buy it, if it addressed a need or problem of my own.

The PM plugins I've demo'd (including this new one) seem decent but haven't hit me as living up to the big deal, never seen before in plugin-land, now we're finally going past hardware hype that accompanies their releases.

100% Agree with you on this. There's way too much hyperbolic and frankly unrealistic expectations raised by some companies. The most notorious probably being Acustica Audio who sort of invented the marketing scheme. Unfortunately this is the norm.. as it is in all of current western society. Clickbait and complete disregard for nuances of words is how it's now done everywhere.

I agree with an earlier post that LTL Silver Bullet is top notch.

It really REALLY is! And no, I'm not shilling for PA or LTL. It just is a superb plugin and superb piece of hardware.

[pekbro]

IMO I'm quite entitled to be concerned about this industry ands it's conventions, best practices and outcomes even if I'm not a customer of this particular company.

Kids with their entitlement these days!

I'm kidding. You can do whatever you like. No one is censoring you. We're having a friendly discussion.

What!? I didnt sign up for any friendly conversations! Outrageous!

[Kappa_Beta_Hi-Phi]

I didn't have time to do proper beta testing for this plugin, no unfortunately. But I did get in at the very end of development to create some presets (for free) for the plugin and also to give my opinion on it (not that it really mattered as it was 99.9% done by then).

Yes, I did receive an NFR license for it. (snip)

This is great to know and I'm really glad you addressed it. It's simply a matter of declaration IMO, nothing else needs to be said.

[bmanic]

I didn't have time to do proper beta testing for this plugin, no unfortunately. But I did get in at the very end of development to create some presets (for free) for the plugin and also to give my opinion on it (not that it really mattered as it was 99.9% done by then).

Yes, I did receive an NFR license for it. (snip)

This is great to know and I'm really glad you addressed it. It's simply a matter of declaration IMO, nothing else needs to be said.

I won't declare every damn beta testing I do as that's fooking tedious. I always speak my mind and am at least to my own knowledge completely incorruptible. My post history shows that clearly over the past decades.

Rather it would be nice if people understood that getting an NFR license for a plugin has literally no monetary value at all. It's not at all the same as a Youtube influencer who gets actual money on their bank account or thousands of euros worth of hardware that can be sold freely.

Like I said, beta testing is the exact opposite. YOU are the one _giving_ money (aka time) freely to the developer. Not the other way around. So instead of demanding declarations and having a completely wrong and skewed opinion about it why not instead be educated and try to understand what the process is?

EDIT:

Actually, let me add some thoughts on why you see beta testers always be so enthusiastic. The reason is most likely simply because they are passionate about the product. They spent countless hours testing it, giving feedback on it and building a community around it (when it's a healthy beta test, this is what sometimes happens). They literally gave the developer their precious time and energy, for free. Nobody in their right mind would do this if they disliked the product. So naturally you will see enthusiastic beta testers jump on forums to praise whatever they helped create. They are proud of it. Proud of the work they put in it (again, FOR FREE) and they want to shout this to the world from the roof tops.

This is why you see the trend of overly enthusiastic beta testers.

There is no monetary incentives here to be found! Just ordinary humans being proud of their work.

If you want to be cynical about it, the ragged defense of a product a person tested may perhaps be comparable to a buyers justification/remorse, meaning they spent all this time testing a product only to find people shitting on it. So naturally they jump onboard to defend the time and effort they spent or it would be psychological agony realizing it was all in vain and they just lost a bunch of precious time.

[Uncle E]

Of course, but you can understand why this situation may cause some of us to be distressed.

Sure, I used to get distressed about things like this a lot and sometimes still do. But I consider it to be a failure of my character, something to overcome.

Anyway, it's all good. There's nothing wrong. WAGMI.

[Kappa_Beta_Hi-Phi]

I won't declare every damn beta testing I do as that's fooking tedious. I always speak my mind and am at least to my own knowledge completely incorruptible. My post history shows that clearly over the past decades. (snip)

Well IMO I think you should declare it each time, that's up to you though.

And you must see why I or some others are so cynical about things. I mean it's plainly obvious to me at least. Youtube, other social media, forums and traditional media have made us more cynical. TBF I am a cynic and not much will change that.

What you said before about the prices lowering in plugin-land is obviously a welcome thing for consumers but this industry has veered into all out consumerism, where as pre 2010 or so it was a prosumer or professional market. I think this has brought some strangeness to proceedings.

There's the race to the bottom, erosion of standards and competition for attention to contend with now. As more consumers are in the market there is the increasing bling factor too, people curating their lives online and purchasing things to bolster appearances. Many are buying high end headphones, preamps, monitoring systems, converters and you may have seen this coming... magic cables the way people used to assemble hi-fi systems.

There was always GAS, but it wasn't instant-GAS the way it is now.

"We have found the alchemy that will polish your piles of turds into piles of gold" is just another Tuesday.

I'm tired. We're all tired. And that's why I'm cynical (mostly).

[bmanic]

The cynicism is well warranted, I totally understand that. However, beta testing a plugin has only monetary losses, not gains. Thus it makes no sense to demand to declare it as some sort of monetary incentive.You've actually lost money doing it.. guess that could skew and bias things due to how it may affect people psychologically. Still, it is nowhere in the same universe as being paid to promote something. I wish people understood this.

[Kappa_Beta_Hi-Phi]

The cynicism is well warranted, I totally understand that. However, beta testing a plugin has only monetary losses, not gains. Thus it makes no sense to demand to declare it as some sort of monetary incentive.You've actually lost money doing it.. guess that could skew and bias things due to how it may affect people psychologically. Still, it is nowhere in the same universe as being paid to promote something. I wish people understood this.

Well unfortunately due to the way things are now that is IMO a slight differentiation, even if it is true and makes sense to you it may not to others. Just something to be aware of.

[eecrumjr77]

The cynicism is well warranted, I totally understand that. However, beta testing a plugin has only monetary losses, not gains. Thus it makes no sense to demand to declare it as some sort of monetary incentive.You've actually lost money doing it.. guess that could skew and bias things due to how it may affect people psychologically. Still, it is nowhere in the same universe as being paid to promote something. I wish people understood this.

I get it, but I think what you're describing with beta testing also indicates an investment of one's valuable time, care, interest, effort, and likely some level of emotion. A person having made those investments in a new product isn't coming to it from an objective point of view on release day. To me that's the reason to be aware of who's on board the train when reading supposed user reviews and feedback.

[jens]

And really, the only part people TRULY have an issue with is his pricing.

Nope, what irks me personally far more - and I assume I am not alone with that - is that the developer basically claims to be superior to every other developer out there... or, he most probably rather wants to make everyone - including himself - believe that. A truly self-confident developer doesn't call his products "Masterpieces" on his website (and without the slightest hint of self-mockery). That's just so.... bizarre.

Pulsar Modular delivers audio plugins exceeding analog audio hardware sound and workflow.The sound is unbelievable!

(Pulsar Audio about Pulsar Audio)

[jens]

It's a bit strange trying to portray the dude as some kind of evil cult leader when the only truly visible cult is the one hounding this one lone developer.

"Bad guy"? I said nothing like that. For me the company is a funny and quite silly little curiousity and I am amused by people taking it any serious.

[bmanic]

The cynicism is well warranted, I totally understand that. However, beta testing a plugin has only monetary losses, not gains. Thus it makes no sense to demand to declare it as some sort of monetary incentive.You've actually lost money doing it.. guess that could skew and bias things due to how it may affect people psychologically. Still, it is nowhere in the same universe as being paid to promote something. I wish people understood this.

I get it, but I think what you're describing with beta testing also indicates an investment of one's valuable time, care, interest, effort, and likely some level of emotion. A person having made those investments in a new product isn't coming to it from an objective point of view on release day. To me that's the reason to be aware of who's on board the train when reading supposed user reviews and feedback.

That is indeed true. But that also applies to absolutely everybody who has purchased a product. There is literally no difference, right? Both parties will be subjective no matter what. Heck, I can't think of any scenario where somebody would be objective.

Same goes for people hating something for either some political reason or other reason. Those aren't objective either.

As always, there is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to subjective things like audio. This is why audio examples and concrete demonstrations are valuable.. and of course if possible, 100% uncrippled demos.


EDIT: Note that I am NOT here on these forums as some sort of reviewer. I'm here for the reason I've always been, from the very beginning, to discuss the tools and the trade of my favorite hobby (which just happened to turn into a career over the decades), to bitch and moan about GAS like everybody else. Everything I've ever written should be taken exactly as it is, my own opinion. I never say anything scripted by anybody else. If I ever do you can be assured my account has been hacked.

[bmanic]

And really, the only part people TRULY have an issue with is his pricing.

Nope, what irks me personally far more - and I assume I am not alone with that - is that the developer basically claims to be superior to every other developer out there... or, he most probably rather wants to make everyone - including himself - believe that. A truly self-confident developer doesn't call his products "Masterpieces" on his website (and without the slightest hint of self-mockery). That's just so.... bizarre.

Hmm.. I ditched reading the GS thread back in the P47 saturator days as it got so toxic. But what I did read was quite obviously a guy trying to defend his position on the pricing and that included his belief that he is extremely skilled in what he is doing and obviously very passionate about it all. I have no idea if that's true or not nor do I really care but the whole drama over at GS started with the very high prices. So if I've missed some messianic rants of supreme superiority from the dude over the years then I am the one being ignorant here, sorry about that. However be as it may, the bottom line is still the audio output of the plugin in question and in my opinion, to my ears, it is very good and more importantly, unique in it's sonic fingerprint.

Pulsar Modular delivers audio plugins exceeding analog audio hardware sound and workflow.The sound is unbelievable!

(Pulsar Audio about Pulsar Audio)

Not entirely different from some other companies self-indulgence.