articulating, crisp 1/16 bass

[SecondSkin]

this topic got me experimenting. I tried nearly every synth in my vst folder. Here are some general observations:

1) In general the subtractive VA's weren't very good at it -- some degree of mudiness everytime, even with alot of tweaking (usually ending up very close to ahja's recommendations). I had the best luck with Polyiblit and Triangle2, but just marginally.

2) FM synths def. work better than VA.

3) Sample based works best of all (by far)

4) Note length (combined with release setting, of course) is critical

5) EQ doesn't help much -- it won't solve any major problems. As they say, you can't eq a turd (or something like that).

6) Velocity of the individual notes does make a big difference. Close examination of the tracks I like have alot of velocity variation in the basslines.

7) I know it's not the point of this discussion, but most of the tracks I like don't have consistent runs of 16ths in the bassline -- instead they have a few choice 16th note hits in a 1 - 2 bar pattern.

The solid 16th patterns didn't work in my own tracks, either. I like the sound of the patterns themselves, but they take up too much space in the sonic spectrum.

Anyway, good discussion guys. I've learned alot.

Mark

[Ackelito]

Just a little holla! with those samples provided by Sascha Franck you can make lots of wicked psytrance basses..

good move Sascha! thank you again!

I have to correct my self, Gms is probably using the Esm, not ES2 like i said before... if that matter to anyone.. haha

[SecondSkin]

hmmmm, hujaboy actually answers moonlite's original question and now moonlite is ????????

[Borogove]

Which synths do come with phase reset?

Hmm, I could probably find a place to put a phase reset toggle on Meridian... it also offers initial and peak cutoff as well as sustain cutoff level on the filter envelope, so you can get very precise control of the sweep.

The quick and dirty method of resetting osc phase would add clicks when playing monophonic legato, though, and I don't think I'm up to patching that up this month.

[hjack]

Which synths do come with phase reset?

Hmm, I could probably find a place to put a phase reset toggle on Meridian... it also offers initial and peak cutoff as well as sustain cutoff level on the filter envelope, so you can get very precise control of the sweep.

The quick and dirty method of resetting osc phase would add clicks when playing monophonic legato, though, and I don't think I'm up to patching that up this month.

i want meridian to roll when i tell it to

[Borogove]

i want meridian to roll when i tell it to

Roll?

[hjack]

yeh roll... i almost making it to seat tho... maybe's my accent!

[Ackelito]

this topic got me experimenting. I tried nearly every synth in my vst folder. Here are some general observations:

1) In general the subtractive VA's weren't very good at it -- some degree of mudiness everytime, even with alot of tweaking (usually ending up very close to ahja's recommendations). I had the best luck with Polyiblit and Triangle2, but just marginally.

2) FM synths def. work better than VA.

3) Sample based works best of all (by far)

4) Note length (combined with release setting, of course) is critical

5) EQ doesn't help much -- it won't solve any major problems. As they say, you can't eq a turd (or something like that).

6) Velocity of the individual notes does make a big difference. Close examination of the tracks I like have alot of velocity variation in the basslines.

7) I know it's not the point of this discussion, but most of the tracks I like don't have consistent runs of 16ths in the bassline -- instead they have a few choice 16th note hits in a 1 - 2 bar pattern.

The solid 16th patterns didn't work in my own tracks, either. I like the sound of the patterns themselves, but they take up too much space in the sonic spectrum.

Anyway, good discussion guys. I've learned alot.

Mark

Thanks for sharing!

the velocity part is often overlooked by me! thanks for reminding, iv been lazy latley and not made "real" 16th note patterns, iv stuck a hole in/on every beat to let the kickdrum through. it might enable for a thick bass and a thick kickdrum, but maybe its possible to achieve that without this method anyway, with the right balance... its just that i heard it somewhere and then i started to use the method myself... though when i listen to some older stuff i made i hear that the baselines has a better "Rolling" factor when using a real 16th pattern..but i wont stop this nonsense with deleting a note on every beat cause it actually makes sense sometimes... just had to think it over for a day... lol


To get a real nice and rolling baseline you dont have to fill all those 16 squares....but if you do, it might need some more finess to make it slick and clean, some tuning to make it all blend, some compromises...

Eq helps me with a gentle rootnote boost if the baseline is not full enough, and a light cut close to the boost... or just a very narrow boost.. i bet everybody does this differently, i know i do all the time..

Eq is used alot on the Vb1 to get different characters... aswell as using different saturations..

latley i been finding out that audio seems to work better for me, iv been a real midi junkie just for the sake of lazyness... right now i love to have the whole arrnagement in audio, too much Fx and stuff to have it all in realtime... its a life saver...

this thread has been very interesting, and it even gave me some free samples that really worked for me

(edit due to stupidness)

[DMuzik]

Thanks for the samples Sascha, keep'em coming.

[hujaboy]

Secondskin every word u saied is 100%

this is why i sample the instruments to a sampler.

also about velocity.

[insaneacyde]

wow! you wander off for a couple days and look what happens!
I just had a sneak at ESM thanks to a very helpfull music store. this is it, I think we have a winner!
I will never be able to afford a mac and logic...
well, all I need is the ESM, does anybody know which version of logic it first appeared in?

Sascha, thanx so very much for da samplies!
Ackelito,ahja, n Secondskin mwa for all the advice.
Hujaboy thanx again for the tips.

Borogrove I like the Meridian alot for leads, pads n stuff (trying out the mono version since monday), maybe you could do the phase sync thing, but for me there's too many knobbieson it to mess with for a bassline, I would bleed from the fingers tweaking it!
Maybe an ultra lite version with a TiteassGatetm(hehheh)

[Borogove]

Borogrove I like the Meridian alot for leads, pads n stuff (trying out the mono version since monday), maybe you could do the phase sync thing, but for me there's too many knobbieson it to mess with for a bassline, I would bleed from the fingers tweaking it!
Maybe an ultra lite version with a TiteassGatetm(hehheh)

Funny you should mention that.

[moonlite]

OMG =D

I lost my hope for this thread so just tried forget about it. I actually thaugth that the thread died, because I didn't get any notifications about it in my mail of some reason.

but then skybax told me that even hujaboy showed up. wow. and there seems to be actually some good conversation and even people who understand what I'm trying (almost more "wow"). =)

uh, I've used already over an hour of time at work to (re-)read this thread so I have to save the "real" reply 'till the evening. just wanted you to know that I'm still here.

and I'm sorry to ALL of you whom I've been rude to. this is the first web board that I use, and I had no idea that It's /this/ hard to keep cool in these things ,)

hm. can't come up with any good finishing words so I'll just stop writing now and click submit =) cu =)

[Orbitutle]

Nice thread

[Josmoker]

Wow, some discussion going on here - very interesting!

Just wanted to chip in with one or two observations of mine:
I often tried to make the bassline very deep and boomy, because, well, I thought deep bass = good bass until I noticed that it happens quite frequently that basslines aren't about deep bass at all - the "boom" comes from the dominating bassdrum while the movement comes from the bassline.
Rinkadink is a good example for this (highly recommended listen btw )
I've been trying to get more interesting basslines in a higher frequency range while staying well defined by using more interesting waveforms and just one osc (using the waveshaping in Zeta) and a BP instead of an LP filter. I'm quite happy with the results so far.
Will try the sampling as well, though.

Now I only need to get a track done

Cheers, Jo