Improvements!

[Niijaooh]

Two things I would like to see in DIVA:

1. More snappy digital env. (attack time).
2. More resonant cascade filter.

Elaboration:

1. It sounds and looks (scope) like the digital env in DIVA has a slower attack time after ver. 360. I have tested the same patch in all of the versions I have. Any chance this will change back? The old versions could compete with my jp-6, not the new ones. Also if the attack time in the digital env could be as fast as the analogue model, it would maybe feel even faster than my jup !

2. Someone mentioned a filter pre-gain control. Would this make the cascade filter as resonant as the juno-106/sh-101? Or is there a chance of an additional "High Res"-mode besides the clean and rough modes?

As always I am very gradeful for the hard work done by team U-he. I want to thank for keeping my symptoms of GAS down with the medicine: zebra 2, ace, diva, bazille and tyrellN6.

Kind regards

[hakey]

2. Someone mentioned a filter pre-gain control. Would this make the cascade filter as resonant as the juno-106/sh-101?

Don't know if this was an intentional feature, but if you use the Minimoog style feedback module and set feedback mod to a negative amount (in the mods page) the result is increased resonance with the 24db filters.

[Urs]

Hi Niijaooh,

Hmmm... the digital envelopes should not have changed to my best knowledge. Is that with the Quanitise option or without? We can certainly look into that though.

The cascade filter is based on the rather "tame" use of certain filter chips, matching the references we have. A pre-gain control would certainly help in conjunction with DCO and Dual VCO. I'm not sure if we would like to add yet another similar model, or a different setting. My preference would be adding more strikingly different sounding algorithms.

However, seeing that we've modeled another "stronger" ladder filter (which yet needs tuning and all the stuff), I think we'll be happy to revisit all models in future and add more flavors whenever we see fit

Urs

[Niijaooh]

Hmmm... the digital envelopes should not have changed to my best knowledge. Is that with the Quanitise option or without? We can certainly look into that though.

For example, an attack setting of 0 in 517 sounds like an attack setting of 4 in ver. 360. Maybe its the slope type or rise time. It's very hard to freeze the scope in 360 or I could've counted the difference in ms.

It's not related to the quantize function per se. It will even quantize the slower attack it seems.

Actually, now you mention it. Quantize seems to induce a small delay (don't know if it is smaller in ver 360). Is it quantizing the smooth signal when on or smoothing the quantized signal when off ? The latter would be more true to the old classics i guess, but I don't know what sounds better or is faster to calculate. (Maybe there is even a little delay before the env starts when using the digital env - quantizing or not (or its the scope))

The cascade filter is based on the rather "tame" use of certain filter chips, matching the references we have. A pre-gain control would certainly help in conjunction with DCO and Dual VCO. I'm not sure if we would like to add yet another similar model, or a different setting. My preference would be adding more strikingly different sounding algorithms.

However, seeing that we've modeled another "stronger" ladder filter (which yet needs tuning and all the stuff), I think we'll be happy to revisit all models in future and add more flavors whenever we see fit Smile

Wink Urs

I guess this is a personal preference; on ver 360 or ver 336 I can overdrive the res parameter with modulation. The resonance then gets closer to samples of coolcolj's jupiter-8 (I know the debate is that his sounds stronger - thats what I like about it) and my (now gone) juno-106. With self oscillation it can for example boost the filter volume from -14 to -7db (with the settings i used) when modulating with env 2 or gate. Only a few dB is needed though to make it harsher. When the vco is on, it adjusts the volume of the resonating part in the filter to be louder than the vco. Maybe it explains why I can get similar results by turning off vco 2 waveform in Dual VCO and put the mix knob to 2 o'clock. And thats why the mention af pre-gain cought my attention.

Getting more algorithms is indeed more beneficial for the product and the users . I understand adding a third setting for the existing cascade filter model seems a bit redundant for most people, but if I read that last sentence correctly it may come true one day:-)

Don't know if this was an intentional feature, but if you use the Minimoog style feedback module and set feedback mod to a negative amount (in the mods page) the result is increased resonance with the 24db filters.

wow hakey, thats a really good work around! It sounds very close to the way ver 360 reacts. Even though I guess as always there will be the some artifacts from modulating as the parameter jumps when activating the voice?

Cheers to both of you.

edit: spelling...

[urosh]

Don't know if this was an intentional feature, but if you use the Minimoog style feedback module and set feedback mod to a negative amount (in the mods page) the result is increased resonance with the 24db filters.

That's the way analog filter work as well. Increasing negative feedback with 24dB LPF is same as increasing resonance (only different parts saturate so a bit different tone), but , I use this feature a lot with Korgish filters in Diva - quite a bit difference in tone.

[kimik]

i get hanging notes in zebra quite alot when going through presets..not much to improve otherwise, killer synth.

i'm on a 2.66 dual core mac with logic 9.1.7

-k

[tectonica]

i get hanging notes in zebra quite alot when going through presets..not much to improve otherwise, killer synth.

i'm on a 2.66 dual core mac with logic 9.1.7

-k

This is still a problem for me, too.
You can stop the hangs by briefly changing the polyphony-mode in the main section.

[Urs]

I'll get Clemens to look into the hanging notes. Might be related to multithreading (and possibly the source for crashes as well).

#---

@hakey: Great trick! I hadn't thought about that...

#---

@Niijaooh: Colcoolj's Jupiter 8 is a revision 1 which I learned has a completely different filter circuit. We have the later Rev.2 (with MIDI) sporting almost the same circuit/parts as the Juno 60, just not driven as hot.

That said, I don't think a third option would be a problem at all - we just need a reference hardware to tune it (but I kind of got over collecting Rolands... another Jupiter 8 is just too expensive to justify I think)

Noteworthy: A CS-80 is now awaiting analysis, a Synthex is in reach and a comprehensive collection of Oberheims are ready for dissection. Still waiting for a P5 Rev2 to pop up.

[Bronto Scorpio]

Noteworthy: A CS-80 is now awaiting analysis, a Synthex is in reach and a comprehensive collection of Oberheims are ready for dissection. Still waiting for a P5 Rev2 to pop up.

An emulation of the CS-80 osc and ring modulator would be awesome

Cheers
Dennis

[Urs]

Noteworthy: A CS-80 is now awaiting analysis, a Synthex is in reach and a comprehensive collection of Oberheims are ready for dissection. Still waiting for a P5 Rev2 to pop up.

An emulation of the CS-80 osc and ring modulator would be awesome

Cheers
Dennis

Might not happen in Diva though. We have a running gag about a "dual VCO-VCF-VCA" synth emulating a CS-80, an 800dv and a CZ-101

[urosh]

A CS-80 is now awaiting analysis.

yesyesyes, CS VCF is second best thing in universe after Korg 700/800 filtrs.

[medienhexer]

Frohe Ostern, Urs!

Say, I seem to remember you saying something about an impending release of a 64 Bit Mac Vst version of UHBIK. Or was it Vst 3 and I concluded the 64 Bit part?

Any news on that topic?

And could you, in light of the Easter spirit, maybe give a little hint to what is coming in June? I mean: it's still more than six weeks out, how the hell am I supposed to stay off the Market place if I don't know what's coming?

[filter303]

...I don't think a third option would be a problem at all - we just need a reference hardware to tune it...

Too bad we live in different countries. Otherwise I could borrow you my JP8. It's rev1 also

[Crackbaby]

Hakey! That's brilliant!
Urs! New synth in Diva? Omg!

[Urs]

Frohe Ostern, Urs!

Say, I seem to remember you saying something about an impending release of a 64 Bit Mac Vst version of UHBIK. Or was it Vst 3 and I concluded the 64 Bit part?

Any news on that topic?

And could you, in light of the Easter spirit, maybe give a little hint to what is coming in June? I mean: it's still more than six weeks out, how the hell am I supposed to stay off the Market place if I don't know what's coming?

We have VST3 going on Mac, but not yet on Windows.

Unfortunately our Diva 1.1 stuff still has some issues - we're fixing those first, before we go into beta testing of VST3 on Mac, and adding VST3 Win.

Once VST3 is ready, we'll update all plugins with VST3 support, and the new MIDI Learn implementation. We will post betas of VST3 Mac beforehand, including 64-bit support.

#---

The other "big news" has calmed down a little bit, so we might not need to finish Zebra 2.6/3.0 (still not sure) until July (still can't discuss the nature of the news, just like I couldn't discuss Rack Extensions). For that reason I'm currently contemplating to

- update Zebra with few enhancements to 2.6 in or around July
- add little bits and bobs to Uhbik, Diva and ACE throughout the year
- release Uhbik as Rack Extensions
- try to start that major overhaul of Filterscape
- get new dev to do some dynamics
- try to get major update for Zebra out before x-mas
- but also - sadly - postpone Berlin Modular till next year
- instead, release Bazille as low-cost teaser, fully deductible towards BM (like ACE)

Alternatively, leave Zebra 3.0 for next year, keep Berlin Modular in schedule for this year

Dunno. But that's what's on our plates. Then, next year, think about drum machines and stuff...

Urs